My maiden voyage..

[rwh]

OK, a few things:

1. Floc is short for flocculate, which means...

Boy, I sound like a right prick in that post... Sorry about that, must have been having an off day (been having a few of those recently thanks to work being farking stressful ).

[Trough Lolly]

Don't worry Rob - we all have them. And on the balance of things, I suspect you're still well on the +ve side!!

Cheers,
TL

[James L]

Hmm.... i just realised that the mashmaster thermometer that i was using to gauge my mash temps was about 4-5 degrees out.. which meant the grain was mashing at about 69 when i was thinking it was at 64-65... that might explain why my beers are so full bodied...

i managed to calibrate it with a digital one that i borrowed from work... i think i managed to get the two within .5C of each other at around 60C... this might help...

[PaulSteele]

shit

you've just made me doubt the accuracy of my thermometer.

i never even thought about that.
guess its time to upgrade.

$$$

[James L]

I just picked up a digital one for 30 bucks on the weekend... self calibrating... and instant readings..

One of those hand held probe ones... I got from the local cash can carry, but i think dick smith and tandy would have something similar...

[rwh]

I have a NIST calibrated one that I use to calibrate all my others. Cost me $100 incl. delivery, from here.

[drsmurto]

I posted that link more than a year ago and am still to buy one!

Have seen one in action and they make life so much easier but for some reason the scientist in me still likes using his collection of mercury thermometers. Only one is out so far. And only dropped one and thankfully not into the mash tun, altho if mercury is the worst thing that gets into me i will be doing well.

[James L]

OK... next speed hump in the road of brewing....

My lagers... i brew at 10C, add heaps of yeast , and only pitch when the wort gets to 10C... i rack at 4C for 2 weeks because that is all the fridge space allows... they taste great when i'm bottling.. but about 2-3 weeks after bottling, i have large ammounts of diacetyl present in the beer... this has occured for all mt AG beer thus far, but i have never experienced diacetyl in any of my extract brews...

Also my first brew i left at room temp for a day for diacetyl rest before racking, but am still experiencing diacetyl flavours in the bottle...

What could be causing the diacetyl? i have since given each bottle of lager beer a good invert to try to rouse the yeast and scrubb the diacetyl... the maximum the beers have spent in the bottle is about 6 weeks, but i woud've expected the buttery flavours to have gone by now....

What sort of guidance can you give?

[warra48]

I'm not a lager brewer, and the only AG one I did suffered from the same problem of diacetyl, despite doing a rest at 18ºC for a couple of days before lagering.

Anyway, here is a link which might help.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10-4.html

[Ed]

James, the diacetyl can be caused by lactic bacteria, too long a lag period (maybe from low oxygen levels in wort or from under pitching), or the beer being removed off the yeast cake too early. Hard to say what the problem is in your case but from what you've written I suspect you could be removing it from the the yeast too early. If ferment is strong, most of the yeasts around don't even really need a rest. If you do want to include a rest, it only needs be a rise to say 12C from 10C for a few days.

Which yeasts have you experienced the problem with?

Cheers, Ed

[PaulSteele]

I'd leave it on the yeast cake a bit longer.

try not racking next time.

[James L]

Well...

I dont underpitch, there is no sign of lactic acid infection, and i tend to leave the beer on the yeast for at least 2 weeks. By that time, the fermentation is well and truely finished.

It just seems odd that i dont taste any diacetyl until after i have bottled, whereas if the beer required a diacetyl rest, surely you'd taste the diacetyl in the beer before bottling...

This probelm has occured with S-23 dry yeast.. but i have never had a problem with my extract brews and this yeast, and i have followed the same protocol.

[BierMeister]

Well...

I dont underpitch, there is no sign of lactic acid infection, and i tend to leave the beer on the yeast for at least 2 weeks. By that time, the fermentation is well and truely finished.

It just seems odd that i dont taste any diacetyl until after i have bottled, whereas if the beer required a diacetyl rest, surely you'd taste the diacetyl in the beer before bottling...

This probelm has occured with S-23 dry yeast.. but i have never had a problem with my extract brews and this yeast, and i have followed the same protocol.

Are you sure it's Diacetyl??? A coulpe of posts up you mentioned that your thermometer was out by 4-5 C and you wondered why your beers were so sweet. The other evidence is that you don't get diacetyl with extract. Don't know 100%, but it may not be diacetyl. Get a second opinion, maybe from someone who has experienced the same problem.

[James L]

ok... i'll have a look into that....

I'm pretty sure it is diacteyl as it is only present in the lagers that i have made. not any of the ales. but the flavour may be masked by the sweetness...

[Trough Lolly]

Lagers will typically present as a sweeter beer compared to ales but that doesn't mean that you have an infection. I also agree that it may be the case that you're not letting the lager fully finish off in fermentation.

If you are suffering from "late bloom" diacetyl - this post may be helpful...

Cheers,
TL

[James L]

wowsers... you've hit the nail on the head...

I will definately keep that in mind when i continue creating hte lagers.

So since i do not keg my beer and only have it in the bottle, is i true to say that the yeast present in the bottle will be able to scrubb the diacetyl from the beer if i rouse it a few times in the next few weeks? I'm just trying to think how i'll be able to salvage the last two brews that i've bottled...

By the way TL, that oktoberfest recipe that you mentioned on the forum is bloody nice... keep them coming.

[Trough Lolly]

wowsers... you've hit the nail on the head...

I will definately keep that in mind when i continue creating hte lagers.

So since i do not keg my beer and only have it in the bottle, is i true to say that the yeast present in the bottle will be able to scrubb the diacetyl from the beer if i rouse it a few times in the next few weeks? I'm just trying to think how i'll be able to salvage the last two brews that i've bottled...

By the way TL, that oktoberfest recipe that you mentioned on the forum is bloody nice... keep them coming.

No probs - I'd put the current bottles down to experience and move on. I'm not a huge fan of shaking bottled beer and I doubt the yeast would completely clean it up anyway.
It's not a bad Oktoberfest - I've made a few adjustments to that recipe and I'm mashing it tomorrow morning - if it turns out nice, I'll post the update - it's got plenty of hops in it...I have a kilo of Tettnanger flowers that need to be used so the hop bill is pretty big for the style - around 45 IBU's from memory!! It'll hopefully be a big malty, hop laden lager...oh, and I won't use the whole kilo in one batch!!

Cheers,
TL

[warra48]

I have a kilo of Tettnanger flowers that need to be used so the hop bill is pretty big for the style - around 45 IBU's from memory!! It'll hopefully be a big malty, hop laden lager...oh, and I won't use the whole kilo in one batch!! Cheers,TL

What's wrong with an OktoberfestIPA?
Getting wimpy in your old age?
Go on, you know you want to use the whole kilo, don't be shy now, just do it. It's olympics time, so anything higher and stronger has to be good.

[Trough Lolly]

I suppose I could convert my filter into a hopback and put a kilo of flowers in that!

Cheers,
TL the hophead lager lout!

[Luna]

yep... 1/2 a whirlfloc tablet....

i give it a pretty good mix,

I guess i can put it down to two things...

I have the pot on a slight angle so i can retrieve the most beer from the kettle. the pick up is at the lowest part of the pot.. therefore some of the settling floculant will get sucked into the chiller...

Second is i am not letting it sit long enough to settle... i wait about 5 -10 minutes.. i'm guessing more time is needed... i still do get a huge amount of shit left at the bottom of the kettle at the end...

Ok... next weekend... i'll add the whirlfloc and when the boil has finished, i will give it a huge whirlpool and let it sit for 15 minutes... I dont think the pot on the angle will acount for a huge ammount of floc transfer if i mix it well enough to start with.... and i'll see how that goes...

The slightest things make all the diff....

What are those two things? I can't wait for weekend! Can you do it now?



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