My maiden voyage..

[rwh]

so with your mill DrS, do you use one of the finer settings that originally came with the mill, or did you do the mod?? I drilled a hole where the rollers are furthest apart... Dont say i have to take it apart again and drill another hole...

I assume that you used the photos from the AHB forum? I did, but I did it differently. Instead of drilling a single hole and then using the lug nuts to adjust the crush gap, I drilled a series of holes on the knob that allows me to adjust the crush gap between all the way open to grinding flour.

When I have mine all the way open, it hardly crushes the grain at all, and I'd suggest that this is what is causing your efficiency problems. On mine, I normally crush two holes finer than that fully open hole, which is narrower that the recommended 60 thousandths of an inch I think (prolly more like 40). At this crush gap the sparge is significantly slower, but hopefully more efficient.

I understand that Coopers crush so fine that they get over 100% efficiency (compared to the lab efficiency) which is pretty impressive! They must be producing very fine flour.

[James L]

I think i'll crush it once with the larger setting, then run it through again with one of the "default" settings... that should help... I'll get my G/Fs dad to take it apart when he's over next as he's a bit of a perfectionist...

I'll see if i can get some feeler gauges from work.

I also managed to get the weldless thermo into the esky... i was wondering how you guys go about calibrating the temp? i think mines out about 4C...

I reckon if i try all these things that you've suggested... i'll be up there in the 70s before i know it..

I really appreciate the help guys.. anytime you're in WA.. the beers are on me..

[rwh]

No probs mate, never been to WA, so we'll have to see.

The rule of thumb is that you want the kernel to be crushed into four or five pieces, but with the husks remaining as complete as possible, and less than 10% flour. At least that's my demented-brain-memory of the rule of thumb.

Good luck!

[James L]

Ok i had a bit of a play with the mill last night, and drilled a few more holes. And i can see where i was going wrong with the grain crush...

I have drilled a hole halfway between the hole that gives the largest gap in the rollers, and one of the original holes that gave the largest setting. The new gap is still relatively wide, but my plan was to run the grain through this setting, to crack the grain well, and then run it through again with the largest original setting (which is much narrower) to crush the grain into smaller pieces whilst keeping the husk intact.

I found that if i tried to crush the grain with the smaller setting it cloggedthe hopper, and created alot of flour (because there was some grinding of the grain against the rollers) and tended to rip the husk up into small pieces.

I know that it'll take a about 10 extra minutes to crush the grain each brew, but it looks as though the efficiency should go through the roof, so that should make it worth it.

I just need to make a larger hopper... the one i have is made out of cardboard and its shithouse...

[drsmurto]

Nothing wrong with flour mate. Ive said it before and i will say it again. The beerbelly falsie is great at filtering so crush as fine as you can. If that means nothing but flour give it a go. I will be modding mine soon to crush it as fine as i can until i get a stuck sparge.

[James L]

Its a really fine crush, but i'm happy that the husks are still relatively intact... I thought it might've been a little too fine to start with, but after looking at pictures in Palmers, it looks spot on...

[drsmurto]

I really dont get why so many ppl get their reg grundies in a twist over in-tact husks. The big breweries (and rwh quoted the coopers figure) crush to a fine powder and get nigh on 100% efficiency, some higher.

If you want a rule of thumb, crush finer until you get a stuck sparge and then wind it back a touch.

I dont find CPA loaded with the tannins people are afraid of getting if they crush the she-ite out of the husks.......

My 2 c only....

Cheers
DrSmurto

[James L]

i just thought if the husks where intact, i would help act as a filter system for extracting the sugar and reducing stuck sparges... isnt that the reason why you add rice husks?

I'll try it like this on the weekend, then i might crush it finer the weekend after... and see how it goes... I think i'm just going to be happy that i will have a higher efficiency that what i have achieved in the last two brews... I'm running out of fermenters....

[rwh]

I really dont get why so many ppl get their reg grundies in a twist over in-tact husks. The big breweries (and rwh quoted the coopers figure) crush to a fine powder and get nigh on 100% efficiency, some higher.

The big breweries like Coopers might crush their grain into flour, but I think you'll find they leave the husks intact when they do so. They do this with an elaborate six roller mill.

Five- and Six-roller mills Six-roller mills have three sets of rollers. The first roller crushes the whole kernel, and its output is divided three ways: flour immediately is sent out the mill, grits without a husk proceed to the last roller, and husk, possibly still containing parts of the seed, go to the second set of rollers. From the second roller flour is directly output, as are husks and any possible seed still in them, and the husk-free grits are channeled into the last roller. Five-roller mills are basically six-roller mills in which one of the rollers performs double-duty.

[Ross]

so with your mill DrS, do you use one of the finer settings that originally came with the mill, or did you do the mod?? I drilled a hole where the rollers are furthest apart... Dont say i have to take it apart again and drill another hole...

you want the top 2 feeding rollers as far apart as possible...so you have that right.
you then need to adjust the exit gap of rollers 2 & 3 for the crush. Adjustment is made by the brass nuts on each end of the Marga.

cheers Ross

[hoohaaman]

I really dont get why so many ppl get their reg grundies in a twist over in-tact husks. The big breweries (and rwh quoted the coopers figure) crush to a fine powder and get nigh on 100% efficiency, some higher.

If you want a rule of thumb, crush finer until you get a stuck sparge and then wind it back a touch.

I dont find CPA loaded with the tannins people are afraid of getting if they crush the she-ite out of the husks.......

My 2 c only....

Cheers
DrSmurto

Agreed crush to flour if your falsie will handle it.
The husk is only there as a filtration device..ala rice gulls

[Kevnlis]

so with your mill DrS, do you use one of the finer settings that originally came with the mill, or did you do the mod?? I drilled a hole where the rollers are furthest apart... Dont say i have to take it apart again and drill another hole...

you want the top 2 feeding rollers as far apart as possible...so you have that right.
you then need to adjust the exit gap of rollers 2 & 3 for the crush. Adjustment is made by the brass nuts on each end of the Marga.

cheers Ross

I use my marga in a very different way. I send the grain through once at its widest setting but then I dial it back to the widest or second widest stock setting and send the lot through again.

I find I get a lot of husk damage, but it makes no difference to run off and gives me a much finer crush.

[hoohaaman]

For the old school .7 is around 40thousanth of an inch,good luck with that.
My advice,just get a beerbelly false bottom and never worry.

Crush to flour,although the high effieciency kills you

Never a stuck sparge .

[warra48]

For the old school .7 is around 40thousanth of an inch,good luck with that.
My advice,just get a beerbelly false bottom and never worry.

Crush to flour,although the high effieciency kills you

Never a stuck sparge .

Sorry to disagree with these mathematics, but 40 thousanth of an inch is about 1 millimetre.

1 inch = 25.4 mm (close enough)
thus: .040 x 25.4 = 1

I set my MillMaster at a 1 mm gap, and have no trouble achieving 80+% efficiency into the kettle. Any smaller for the crush, and IMHO you will start to slow your sparge down.

[James L]

Ross,

i didnt realise you could mess around with the marga mill in that way.. i'll have a play around with it when i get home from work this afternoon.

What i ended up doing on saturday was what Kev said he did.. run it through once at the widest setting (modified), then run it through again with the widest stock setting. It did take some time (2 hours), but the crush was MUCH better than my two previous brews.

I ended up hitting the nail on the head with respect to extraction efficiency. I got 75% and my preboil and post boil SGs were spot on. (1045 and 1052).

Did an APA, smelt great, used horizon, chinook and cascade. with pale malt, a touch of munich and crystal.

Does anyone have some blueprints for a larger hopper for the Marga Mill? my cardboard one is looking a little worse for wear, and because it is so small, i think this is the reason why my crush took so long.

[Kevnlis]

Well James, funny you should mention that, I think I long ago intended to make a tutorial about my mill (like many other things) and never got around to it.

I do however have a pdf of the blueprints I used on my website.

I used corflute (sign shops will have it, cost me $5) and it only took about 15 minutes to make! Holds a half bag of malt easily, but I try not to put more than 8 kilos in at a time.

[Trough Lolly]

Ross,

i didnt realise you could mess around with the marga mill in that way.. i'll have a play around with it when i get home from work this afternoon.

<snip>

Does anyone have some blueprints for a larger hopper for the Marga Mill? my cardboard one is looking a little worse for wear, and because it is so small, i think this is the reason why my crush took so long.

I didn't know about that trick with the brass nuts either?! Will have to have a play around soon.

As for the hopper, I followed the design of one or Ross's mates and picked up the downpipe fitting from Bunnings - looks like this:


I can nearly get a standard batch of grains in the hopper in one go - I gaff taped it to make sure I have a good fitting but it isn't absolutely necessary.

Cheers,
TL

[James L]

I did have a play with the mill, and the crush did turn out fine... but it does take a bit of pissfarting around, and i'm not sure whether the roller stays in place... maybe its just me...

As for the brewing... the more i do it the more i enjoy it... i can not believe i didnt start before now (maybe it was the cost of all the equipment).

I think i hardest thing for me is deciding which beer i'm going to make each weekend.

I make an ale one weekend, and a lager the next.. its a good schedule as the ale gets to sit in the fermenter for 2 weeks then bottled, and the lager takes two weeks to ferment, then gets transferrred to the 4C fridge for lagering.. so there is always an empty fermenter each weekend for the brew.

I'm now just trying to get my head around slants and plating... i'm gonna be a yeast farmer.. it does help having a microbiological background and sterile equipment at your disposal.

[Trough Lolly]

I'm now just trying to get my head around slants and plating... i'm gonna be a yeast farmer.. it does help having a microbiological background and sterile equipment at your disposal.

Indeed and there's a lot to be said for having a collection of yeast that would fit into a lunch box! Just make sure that you're ready to spend the rest of the week before brewday getting ready with yeast starters....

Cheers,
TL

[James L]

OK... i brewed again yesty... 5 weekends in a row... loving it...

made a dennis hopper out of cardboard and so i dont have to pour cupfulls of grain into the old hopper every couple of minutes.. it holds about 2kg, so i can check the crush every now and then between filling up the hopper. The whole 6.5kg of grain only took about 25 minutes to crush instead of the usual hour+..

I did have a fiddle with the mashing procedure to see whether i could increase the effieciency of the mash... Previously i was adding water to the grain, giving it a thorough mix then leaving it for hte hour before draining and sparging... this time, i gave the grain a good mix every 20 minutes, and left the whole thing for about 75 minutes (cos i was playing manhunt on the computer). I drained the liquor alot slower this time at rate of about 2litres every 3 minutes.

My preboil gravity was about the gravity i was expecting for my final gravity which was about 13.5 brix (1052)... this meant i managed to achieve efficiency somewhere around the 80-85% mark... blew me away... my final brix was 16.5.. which was a SG of 1066... (6.4% when complete).

I thought that this efficiency might be due to the crush and mixing in the mash tun, but i also added 5g of calcium sulphate to try to reduce the pH and produce a better efficiency that way... I scrambled my brain doing the maths to work out the right ammount of caso4 to add to ensure i wasnt going overboard with either the calcuim or sulphate... i think next time i might add 2g of cacl2 aswell as the caso4 to try to reduce the pH a little more.

I ended up making a SNPA with magnum, perle and cascade... smelt great, and was bubbling within the hour with the 3 cups of 1056 i made for the starter...

every single slant that i have made has been successful and shows no sign of contamination. one of the easiest but effective things i have done with respect to brewing...

Also... i am seeing that the first ale that i made and bottled is still cloudy after 2 weeks in the bottle and it also tastes a little grainy. I thought this might be due to a combination of a bad crush and a pH that was too high... hence i have started to add the caso4... its not an infection... do AGs take longer to settle?

And finally... my first AG pils i used koppafloc, and i did notice that a little of the flocculation material has finally made its way into the bottles.. its a fine layer of shit on the bottom of the bottle.. will this eventually settle as well as yeast, or can i expect to see this floc material making its way into my beer glass?

Cheers

James