Steeping Carapils

[mike_hifi]

Might not be in the right forum here but have steeped 250g of Capapils for use in a NS recipe (seperate post) and after a good 30 mins, when straining out, it seemed that there was no colour whatsoever to the liquid coming out and even worse, it seemed the most of the 'starchy' innards of the grain were still there!

Not a huge amount of experience with grains - been a pretty straight extract brewer until now.

Is it normal for the white starchy bits to still be there after a steep?

[mike_hifi]

And yes, I did use hot water

Boiled water in a saucepan then, after 5 minutes, added grain and wrapped it up in a towel for 30 mins ....

?

[timmy]

Did you crack the grains before starting? I don't know if it's absolutely necessary with crystal type grains but I normally do it anyway.

[mike_hifi]

Yes, they were pre-cracked from hbs ..

[Kevnlis]

Don't worry, I am sure you have done fine.

Just a couple things to note, the water temp should be around the 65-70C mark much higher and you risk tannin extraction. Also you MUST boil the liquor that you take from the steeped grain for AT LEAST 30 minutes (might as well chuck some hops in.

I am not sure if this is how you have done it, but if you have then everything is cool! Carapils does not add colour, and the starch is mostly not desired and will hopefully fall out in the trub anyway.

[Bizier]

I used my first carapils last week in a rushed lager and thought much along the same lines... none of the nice roasty smells that most spec grain impart, instead you get a kind of 'green' smell and milky-ish liquor. I just hoped for the best, this technique has worked wonders in the past.

[Chris]

Well you are looking for increased foam retention and body, not flavours.

[mike_hifi]

Thanks guys, you have put my mind at ease .... didn't sleep a wink last night. OK, maybe a bit.

I did a 12l boil for 60 mins as this was first attempt at an all extract (+grains) brew so no probs there. Have enough colour anyway from extract added and hoping that some Irish Moss will clear the milkiness.....

Cheers.

[drsmurto]

carapils has an EBC of 3-5 so am not surprised you saw 4/5ths of FA colour.

As Chris pointed out, carapils is used to increase the body of the beer and improve head retention, the grain version of maltodextrin.

[Bizier]

the grain version of maltodextrin

Does Carapils add any perceivable sweetness, ie complex unfermentable sugars?

EDIT: Botched quote fixed

[drsmurto]

no idea mate, i dont use it and dont see the point of it.

[rwh]

Does Carapils add any perceivable sweetness, ie complex unfermentable sugars?

Nup. Just think of it as maltodextrin (minus the possible soapiness that maltodextrin can produce). If you want sweetness you have to go for light crystal (Cara) which provides honey flavours, or medium crystal with caramel/toffee flavours, or dark crystal, choc, etc moving towards coffee.

[Trough Lolly]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Carapils is a flavourless, pale dextrinous malt that adds unfermentables to the wort, thus adding body and mouthfeel to the beer whilst helping promote head retention. Weyermann carapils does not need to be converted (but Briess carapils should be mashed). I would only used Carapils when I deliberately want to increase body but not add any positive flavours - and that's pretty rare!

The powder equivalent of carapils is corn syrup.

Cheers,
TL

[BierMeister]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Carapils is a flavourless, pale dextrinous malt that adds unfermentables to the wort, thus adding body and mouthfeel to the beer whilst helping promote head retention. Weyermann carapils does not need to be converted (but Briess carapils should be mashed). I would only used Carapils when I deliberately want to increase body but not add any positive flavours - and that's pretty rare!

I would be careful with steeping Carapils. Here are the words of Palmer

Dextrin Malt 3 L Also known as American Carapils, this malt is used sparingly and contributes little color but enhances the mouthfeel and perceived body of the beer. A common amount for a five gallon batch is 1/2 lb. Dextrin malt has no diastatic power. It must be mashed; if steeped it will contribute a lot of unconverted starch and cause starch haze.

TL says that Weyermann doesn't need to be mashed, I don't know about the particular brand, but I would be careful about steeping it only. Better to use corn syrup/malto dextrin powder if you aren't mashing any base malts with it.

[mike_hifi]

Good warnings - interestingly, this came from HBS as a 'lager grain pack', ready to be steeped into your favourite pale recipe. I don't think I'll be bothering for future recipes.
Have had good success with their 'Amber' and 'Dark' grain packs previously (Crystal/Choc etc) so didn't think too much about picking up their 'Lager' pack. Even though I was getting pretty experimental with a NS recipe that is 50/50 malt/wheat .....

Cheers,

Mike

[Trough Lolly]

G'day all - by all means you can mash with Carapils but Weyermann Carapils doesn't have readily convertable starches that need to be mashed with an alpha or beta amylase enzyme to convert. Try it yourself - steep some carapils in a small cup of water and I guarantee that you'll taste a very faintly sweet solution.
I had an email discussion with John Palmer a few years ago about the need to mash Briess Carapils / Carafoam whatever it's sold as nowadays. I'm at the Qantas club right now so I can't quote the response but basically it's quite ok to steep Weyermann carapils along with the specialty grains when you do a partial or steeped with extract brew.
By all means, if in doubt you can use corn syrup but to be honest, I don't really use the stuff nowadays - If I need more body in the beer, I typically add more malt!!

Cheers,
TL

[BierMeister]

If I need more body in the beer, I typically add more malt!!

Words of wisdom that needed to be said.

[drsmurto]

If I need more body in the beer, I typically add more malt!!

Words of wisdom that needed to be said.

Or mash at a higher temp.........

[Kevnlis]

If I need more body in the beer, I typically add more malt!!

Words of wisdom that needed to be said.

Or mash at a higher temp.........

...and use more malt to make the same ABV...

[Trough Lolly]

Yep, all good suggestions...You could also decoct, but I won't get into that right now!

Cheers,
TL