Going all grain but still restricted by pot size for now.

[chadjaja]

Title says it all really.

I will have the mash tun up and running this week but I still only have good quality 20L pot that I've used for extract.
Options?
Split the boil up between two pots? And if so how does this effect the hop amounts/do both pots get hops?
Scale down an AG recipe to 75% and make up the SG with dry malt?

I'm happy to do only 20L batches as its kegged and I don't care for bottling a few left overs.

I'm planning on going the urn option as my boiler in a 30L size instead of the gas route with burner,reg and large pot. I have a large enough pot to get the batch sparge water heated in as well.

I'm not that far off the mark for a 20L batch as all I really need is an extra 5L in pot size and my stove top would surely boil the extra amount too as it handles a near full 20L boil now

[warra48]

I'd suggest you split your boil into two equal portions, and also allocate half of your hops to each.
You would need to make sure you have some of the first runnings and sparges in each to equalise the SG.
That way, your brewing programs will give you reasonably accurate estimates on IBU etc.

I guess the only downside is you'll be boiling twice, so potentially adding up to about 1½ hours to your brew day.

I personally wouldn't go down the road of a smaller mash and boil and adding more LDME, as it will make your IBU calculations rather complex and difficult.
It would be a step back to a partial, wouldn't it, rather than a full AG?

[chadjaja]

hmmmmm

split the first sparge in half and top up with the second runnings for each pot you say Warra. The extra time isn't so bad when the result should be better

[warra48]

That's my suggestion.
Evens everything out, and allows you to do a single calculation as if it was a full batch.

[drsmurto]

Sparge into your fermenter, mix well and then pour half into each pot. That way you are guaranteed to have the same SG for each.

[chadjaja]

ahhh Doc with the even easier option! Why didn't I think of that

[jayse]

10-15% extract would be fine to stretch it out, at that amount you can put it in at any time and it will not affect the IBU calcs. I'd put it in the end though. At that amount it will not affect the flavour adversely to any real degree at all either.

Maybe worth while looking into a 40litre urn if you can stretch the finance but yeah a cheap bigw style 20 litre pot will do the job cheaply.

How do you plan to chill the wort?

[chadjaja]

Yeah I should of said 40L urn, the ones I'm looking at are the 40L ones. Think I'll go with the Birko one.

I don't have a chiller so could go the no chill option into a cube and ferment when down to temp a few days later. I still haven't figured out a safe way to get the boiling wort into a cube with a pot that doesn't have a tap installed though. I've been cooling down all extract boils in an ice batch in the laundry sink to pretty easily and like I said it wont be a full boil due to my pot size so I'll probably end up doing that. I also have room to put a fermenter in my chest freezer I have my kegs in to cool it down more after its cool enough to pour into the fermenter. I'm pretty anal about cleaning so I haven't had any problems with delayed pitching before when I haven't been able to get the temp down enough for my liking.

Tried my mash tun out today and it had a small leak but seems to be good now after some messing around with it. Been boning up on all the pictorials and vids on the internet and taking notes so I have a schedule to work to and hopefully nail it for my first AG. I've gone from k@K with bits, to all extract, to partial mash with biab and AG doesn't seem nearly as daunting as it once did. Actually I'm looking forward to having more control over my brews not to mention it cutting my costs as extract is very expensive.

The cost of my tun build ($35) will be recouped in just two brews I'd think.

Think the good Dr's Golden ale will be my first AG After all I already have 1056 to step up using my new stir plate after all

New brew toys are good

[drsmurto]

You've got a stir plate and you use liquid yeast and you haven't gone AG yet?

That's dedication, it took me several AGs before i switched to liquid yeasts. I still occasional use dry yeast but its a rarity, they just cant compare to the liquids.

Make sure you take plenty of pics of your 1st AG and post them up here.

If you need the beersmith file for the golden ale, its here - Link

You'll need to make adjustments for your equipment but the basics are there for you.

Cheers
DrSmurto

[chadjaja]

yeah it was easier, cheaper and took less space to go the liquid yeast path than AG.

Thanks Dr S

[billybushcook]

The main reason I still use dried yeast (most of the time) is that I buy my grain, & yeast buy mail order (due to distance) & although not perfect, dried yeast is more tollerant to temp than liqiuds in un-controlled transit (or so I believe),

From the dried Yeast, I rehydrate it 24 - 48hrs in advance, in aerated, cooled, boiled water, keep it at 20 deg & shake the T%Ts off it as often as possible , then hit it with some Dextrose when I mash in, It fires up nice & visable signs of fermentation occur within 12 - 24hrs of pitching.

Is it possible to Mail order Liquid yeasts & guarantee their quality??

Cheers, Mick

[chadjaja]

sure either Ross at craftbrewer or G&G have liquid yeast and you can get it packed with cold blocks. Just as easy as buying dried yeast and now the cost of dried has risen so much there is only a few dollars difference between the two. The big advantage is you can get more than 6 brews out of the one liquid yeast but one dried pack goes into only one brew. Not to mention the varieties available.

[drsmurto]

Is it possible to Mail order Liquid yeasts & guarantee their quality??

Cheers, Mick

At this time of the year its not an issue. Just order earlier in the week so it doesn't spend all weekend at a depot.

Ross is excellent is ensuring his customers are happy, he has gel packs you can buy to transport with your liquid yeast to keep them cool during the warmer months.

I've not bought liquid yeast from him as Adelaide has a few places we can buy wyeast locally.

[chadjaja]

Just a clarification coz I'm tired and a few beers into this cold windy night..

So if I sparge into the fermenter, mix to get a consistant SG, split between two pots....I can...

Only add hops to one of the boils in the same amount I would for a full boil seeing its the SG of the brew and the IBU's and aroma etc will be diluted by the other unhopped wort just like a K&K would with extra malt.

In that case couldn't I cut down on the time spent boiling wort by only boiling the top up wort for say 20 mins rather than an hour? Just basically to kill the nasties just like we do when steeping grains. Or does the full boil of AG wort have other benifits?

I assume the trouble might come into it with the evaporation rate and that two boils would evaporate more than the one pot of the combined amounts. Dr S's 90 boil loses 9L in total over the 90 mins ending up with 20Ls which is the perfect amount for my kegging needs. I wonder if I'll actually end up with less than 20LS in total using my two boils method. Its a pain in the arse but till I get my Urn I'm stuck and my stove would struggle or take days to boil 29L's

EDIT. I must be tired as Warra replied right at the top saying half the hops in half the amount but just wondering about the other way as I might cut out 40 mins of boil time on the second wort boil.

[warra48]

I like your theory of trying to save time, but unfortunately, it won't work too well.

I still recommend half the hop schedule in each of your boils. That way you will isomerise all the hops properly and equally, and also have the appropriate benefit from your flavour and aroma hops.

Boiling for an hour is recommended, as the wort does benefit from it in other ways.

If you evaporate too much of your wort over the two boils, you will not lose the sugars, only water. In other words, all you are doing is concentrating your wort.
There's nothing to stop you adding some volume back to your boils by adding some boiling water from say a kitchen kettle.

[BierMeister]

Before I had my large boiler I used a cheap and cheerful 19L pot and split my boils into 2 lots. I began spliting the boils into equal parts, with equal amounts of hops in each, but the time to boil, cool, strain the hops out etc and then have to do the whole process again got on my nerves. With this in mind, I tried boiling the first lot with more and putting all the hops in, cooling and pouring and then the second lot I would boil for 15-20 mins then cool, pour etc. I know that the hops won't be as efficient with a smaller boil, but I have to say that I couldn't notice the difference in taste, but I sure noticed the difference in time. Many a brew was done this way, until I got my arse into gear and made my now 80L boiler. (never been used to full capacity, but allows me to do a 60L batch with no problems). Now that I have just the one boil etc it takes about 3+ hours less.