Beer Mouth Feel is Syrupy

[Longwood-65]

Hi Guys,
I do K&K's, and the mouth feel is sort of syrupy,
Any suggestions to correct his problem ??
Maybe drop the amount of Malt etc. open to suggestions.
Don't want to add more water, as 20 litres is perfect to Keg.

General recipe is
1.7 Can ( Usually yellow can of coopers) Draught I think.
500g's coopers light dry malt
1 kilo Coopers brew sugar
25 grams of Hops
Safale yeast S-04

Method
Add Malt extract and sugar to 2 litres water and bring to boil making sure dry contents are fully disolved.
Turn Stove down to gentle simmer.
Add hops for 10 mins.
Flame out
Add Can of Coopers mixing well.
Add to fermenter through Kitchen wire Strainer and fill to 20 litres.
Add yeast ( Usually around 18c could be as high as 22c )

Storage
When fermented out, Fill Keg, burp, then Force carbonate, then let sit (Approx 4 weeks), put in fridge day or 2 before keg in fridge empties so it is ready to swap gas and tap lines and start drinking.

Cheers
Ron

Beers Tastes fine but the mouth feel is a bit slippery/syrupy. ( More like drinking a Port than a Red Wine)

[drsmurto]

Slippery/Syrupy as in a butterscotch lolly?

What sort of SG are you getting? How long do you let is sit on the yeast for?

Sounds a bit like diacetyl to me.

Some people pick it as butterscotch lollies, others (like me) cant pick it very well but do detect it as a slippery, slick mouthfeel that makes it hard to drink.

Diacetyl is a chemical produced by the yeast during fermentation. The yeast then absorbs it after fermentation is done in its 'cleaning up process'. if you are too quick in taking it off the yeast cake you wont have enough yeast around to do the clean up.

Lager yeasts are the worst culprits although english yeast (such as S-04) also produce diacetyl.

Also a problem for high floccing english yeast (again, such as S-04).

[warra48]

I agree with DrSmurto.

One other thing, by my calculations your brew has an OG of around 1.059, which is not exactly a lightweight brew.
So it might also be either the higher alcohol level, or the residual body in the beer from the relatively high OG.

[drsmurto]

Ah, so you have an OG of 1.059.

Looking at the way you boiled the hops in a very high OG wort I'd suggest you got bugger all utilisation out of them meaning you got little additional IBU (depends on hop AA of course). the Coopers tin adds ~23 IBU in a 23L batch.

So whilst it may be diacetyl, the malt/hop balance is strongly favouring the malt. Probably a tad too much which may be why you think its syrupy sweet.

[Longwood-65]

Slippery/Syrupy as in a butterscotch lolly?

What sort of SG are you getting? How long do you let is sit on the yeast for?

Sounds a bit like diacetyl to me.

Some people pick it as butterscotch lollies, others (like me) cant pick it very well but do detect it as a slippery, slick mouthfeel that makes it hard to drink.

Thanks for your replies,

SG 1.055
FG 1.012

Because of the cooler weather I have been letting sit in the fermenter 4 weeks, the brews are fully fermented out @ 3 weeks but let them sit a week longer.

The beer is nicely bittered (ie: some might think it's a little too bitter) no noticable sweet taste (butterscotch or anything else), it's just a feel on the roof of the mouth, Slippery, I don't think is a good discription, there is no taste to it, the beer tastes fine and goes down really easy.
It's really hard to discribe, like an after taste with no taste, or distilled water type feel against tap water.

Regards,
Ron

[Trough Lolly]

Hi Ron,
Whilst I agree with what's been posted so far, there may other culprits lurking in the shadows. Apart from the obvious one (an infection has snuck in) you didn't say much about the hops you used.

What form were they? And were they fresh or old/stale? Sometimes a short simmer/weak boil using a relatively large quantity of hops (ie, 25g in a 10 min simmer) will show out aged hops very poorly and the mouthfeel of the barely broken down hop oils and resins will make their way into the wort without anything breaking them down any further during fermentation....the end effect is an almost greasy coating mouthfeel to the beer's aftertaste - which should be almost tasteless since you haven't keyed in the hop flavours during such a short, weak boil.

It's a pity you're so far away - I have a very strong diacetyl / DMS detection palate...which may still be the cause but I'm curious to see what condition your hops were in on brewday.

Cheers,
TL

[Longwood-65]

Hi TL,
Hops I use are generally either Liberty or Glacier pellets, bought from a mosty wine shop that stores them in a fridge with the yeast.
I have no reason to believe they are old/stale.

Since I started writing, others things come to mind I get a lot of time to think when driving to and from work.
Writing in the forum got me thinking when did this problem start and I think it started when I started making 20l batches instead of 23l and adding 1/2k dry malt.
Starting to think that the problem is lack of water. ( The reason why these canned worts are 1.7 and not 1.5 or 2kgs).

I'll try a few 23l batches and see if there is a difference.

Anyone have any thoughts on that scenario.

Thanks All
Ron

[Kevnlis]

I say, make a 23L batch in the exact same way (what does 3L cost you really?) and see what difference you get...

[Longwood-65]

(what does 3L cost you really?)

30 minutes extra work, to wash, clean, sanitize, dry, fill and cap 10 stubbies and lids

Cheers
Ron

[Trough Lolly]

Hi TL,
Hops I use are generally either Liberty or Glacier pellets, bought from a mosty wine shop that stores them in a fridge with the yeast.
<snip>
Ron

Hi Ron,
Are the pellets in the fridge or freezer????

[Longwood-65]

Hi TL
They store it in a glass frontage fridge, They're core business is wine production, Wine and champers yeasts are stored in the same fridge.
Just tapped another keg today and that has the same mouth feel not sure what recipe mix this one is, is a bit darker in colour than my usual batches but I think it's the start of the on-sale cascade cans I bought.( I'm am guessing this one is the draught)

I've put down a cascade pale ale today to 23 litres, I'll see how that turns out,
500g malt,
1k dex,
250g honey,
25g POR for a 10 minute simmer ( first time I have used this Hop Pellet & the first time I have seen this Hop in the store)
can of pale ale at flame out.
US-05 yeast. ( first time i have used this yeast & first time I have seen this yeast in the store)
SG 1.057

Cheers
Ron

[Oliver]

Hi Ron,

Just re-reading (well, reading for the first time, truth be told) some old posts.

Did you ever get this problem sorted?

Cheers,

Oliver