Beer fraud - letter to ACCC

[Bum]

also whats wrong with contract brewing? its done by a lot of commercial brewers both here and overseas.

Apparently marketing is more important than what is in the bottle.

[Oliver]

Lob, that is gold. Absolute, pure gold.

Oliver

[lob]

ROFLMAO. After my second review got rejected, I sent Dans the "emails exchange joke" as my 3rd review for Oakbank under the heading "Campbelltown Lager." I rated Dan Murphys as 0/10. Gave the reason for my rating that they keep rejecting my perfectly valid reviews. Told them they should do the honorable thing and publish my first review unless they can find inaccuracies/faults with it. Told them they are being dishonest with their customers when they list this beer as Craft and from SA. And then I said that I was I going to contact Gruen Nation as this BUL scam would make excellent fodder for their TV show. (I also provided Dans with a link to this very long thread.) To my shock I've just had an email saying my review of Oakbank has been approved!

http://danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_904 ... w=12322111

[Guru]

I admire you for your persistence lob, well done. Once you mentioned the media they caved.

[barls]

also whats wrong with contract brewing? its done by a lot of commercial brewers both here and overseas.

Apparently marketing is more important than what is in the bottle.

thats just one aspect of it, but not all of them are the same. are you just judging the beer on where its made and the way its labeled or just dont like the style?
as i said its done by a lot of commercial breweries both here and over seas, its still craft beer.p just because they are one of the few that actually label it with that on it rather than not label it correctly.
if your going by what you have said better not drink Kosciuszko, rocks brewing, balmain brewing or a lot of others as they dont brew there own beer on their system but someone elses.
heres a post fromt he guys at yeasty boys
http://yeastieboys.posterous.com/contract-brewing
also going from the aib website here
http://a-i-b.com.au/beer.php
its the same set up thats at the australian brewery (http://www.australianhotelandbrewery.com.au/brewery.htm) and a fair few other micros.
still not a craft brewery????
someone remind me whats the system size at stone and wood, white rabbit or mountain goat???
does this mean they arent craft breweries by your definition of system size.
so you even now what products are made at aib???

[Kaiser Soze]

barls, in some senses I totally agree with you. Beer brewed by contract brewers can definitely be craft beer, in fact it might highlight the fact that the brewery is so small that it doesn't have its own brewing system! Or the brewing system itself is small, and therefore is brewed under contract to allow for public sales.

The issue I have with some (not all) of these beers is that no thought is given to the taste or flavour of the beer, and all the thoughts go into marketing a product. There was a beer a few years ago, named after a NSW or QLD town (can't remember which one) which actually had no association with the town at all. Some business developer decided he'd ride on the good name assocuiation with the town and got AIB to pump out a watery crappy beer to put in the bottle. All marketing, no substance. It's a business venture that is intended to make a quick buck, and ultimately, harms the term 'craft beer'.

[Bum]

I think you've misunderstood me somewhat, barls. I accept that my post was somewhat obtuse. My apologies. Your points are all fair and I have no issue with contract brewing.

My suggestion is that lob's (diagnosable) obsession with this issue has nothing to do with beer. Nothing.

[EDIT: Well, excluding the possibility that he may have had too much of it.]

[Geoff]

Indeed. It is important not to confuse the issues. In 2004 Oliver and I gave Pike's 3 stars for being "a pretty good beer". We should probably put it on the list for the next round of tastings for review. But I recall that the last time I had one it was still pretty good.

[lob]

I don't have a problem with contract brewing.

I bought this product (see below) from Costco last week for $49.95. The Pale and IPA are great; the Amber pretty good (better than the $10 Aldi one), and the wheat not to keen on but my wife likes it. $12.50 or so a six-pack is pretty good. I'm pretty sure Costco doesn't own their own brewery....but more importantly, they don't pretend they do. And, the packaging clearly states where it's made (San Jose, California...and even where the hops come from - Washington State.) - Probably the only thing a "tad deceptive" is the very loose use of the term "handcrafted". About the only thing involving a hand is the guy pressing the button to start the automatic brew process. How about though, if Costco did open their own very, very, very small brewery in California, brewed 0.01% of this product in the States, and 99.99% in China. How about, also, the brand name wasn't their Kirkland Homebrand, but "Californian Craft"...the packaging actually mentioned the craft brewing explosion in the US over the past 15 years, and how Costco is pleased to be apart of this revival of truly authentic beer. Pictures of California and American Symbolism everywhere on the packaging/labels. On the underside of the slab in small print is written "Brewed by Costco and/or under licence of Costco ..their USA addresss ....by bla bla bla China."



How about also, because now the beer is er made more cheaply for the Oz market in China, but um er, more importantly is called "California Craft", the price is now $70 a slab.

As for all the awards these BUL/contract beers in NZ have received, maybe it could have something to do with the fact a lot of the small breweries in NZ are happy servicing a small area around their brewery, and don't believe in this endless growth bullshit. Maybe most of them don't bother entering these competitions, whereas the BUL/Contract ones enter every fricken event.

BTW: Here's a map listing of breweries and brew pubs for NZ and Sydney. NZ and Sydney pretty much have the same population.

I'm going on a road trip early next year around NSW, SA, Victoria, and back to the ACT. Whats the bet I don't stumble across anything in NSW pubs other than Tooheys, Carlton, VB, XXXX or BUL : (

[lob]

You don't have to be a brain surgeon to know why small microbreweries struggle in Australia:

1. Fricken Woolies and Coles own a good slice of the pubs. And these pricks only care about $$$$$$.

2. A lot of what could be smaller bars and pubs don't exist because boring,very large, mega-pubs (The Ivy for example), or Clubs (esp here in Canberra) exist in their place. Oh they give so much back to their communities though....yeah off the backs of all the misery they cause.

3. Exclusivity arrangements. Yeah coles or woolies freezing out competitors from malls, coke installing free fridges on condition that only their products are stocked, or a bowling club not being allowed to put a local microbreweries beer on tap because they signed an exclusivity/wanky/cosy/freeze out competition arrangement. Note: In many cases, even if there isn't a cosy arrangement with a large multinational, it's probably true that the dumbfuckers who run these boring establishments a.) don't understand the difference between good quality and mass produced mediocrity when it comes to beer, and b.) don't give a f--- anyways.

4. The media in Australia has done a pathetic job of educating the masses about beer. For every informative/quality hour of so of TV dedicated to wine, I bet there's only around 2 mins on beer. Where are the TV shows on the ABC or SBS where Australian beer is discussed, microbreweries visited, etc, etc?

I bet everyone here who doesn't have a problem with all these beers....

http://www.ratebeer.com/brewers/australian-independent-brewers/6474/

...being made in Campbelltown Sydney, by the headbrewer employed by Independent Brewers, using water from Sydney, etc etc, would have a problem if all these beers were made in China.

Here btw is the back label for Pikes Oakbank. How can anyone seriously suggest this is not deceptive? Note how NSW, Sydney, Campbelltown etc is not mentioned anywhere on the back label. The only address mentioned is theirs in the Clare Valley. To know that this beer is not a craft beer from the Clare Valley - after all Independent Brewers might be based there - you have to go away a do your own research. (Luckily Google makes this task pretty simple.)

[Oliver]

You don't have to be a brain surgeon to know why small microbreweries struggle in Australia ...

A fifth reason is the tax regime. Small wineries get a break on excise to help them while they become established, but there's no such allowance for breweries that only produce a small amount of beer. You can read more about the ludicrous situation at the A Fair Go for Craft Beer website.

Further to the whole discussion about BUL/contract brewing, I suspect that the majority of regular punters wouldn't know that most of their beloved Mountain Goat is made in outback NSW, not in the back streets of inner-city Melbourne.

Only their kegged beer and the 600-or-so-ml "rare breed" bottles are produced in Melbourne. All stubbies are contract brewed.

I am not sure whether this is made clear on the label or not as I don't have one handy to check.

Oliver

[Bum]

Do a bit of research and you'll see that much of the wine industry is lobbying to undo their whole tax system because it is damaging the industry.

Grass is always greener, I guess.

[barls]

I don't have a problem with contract brewing.

I bought this product (see below) from Costco last week for $49.95. The Pale and IPA are great; the Amber pretty good (better than the $10 Aldi one), and the wheat not to keen on but my wife likes it. $12.50 or so a six-pack is pretty good. I'm pretty sure Costco doesn't own their own brewery....but more importantly, they don't pretend they do. And, the packaging clearly states where it's made (San Jose, California...and even where the hops come from - Washington State.) - Probably the only thing a "tad deceptive" is the very loose use of the term "handcrafted". About the only thing involving a hand is the guy pressing the button to start the automatic brew process. How about though, if Costco did open their own very, very, very small brewery in California, brewed 0.01% of this product in the States, and 99.99% in China. How about, also, the brand name wasn't their Kirkland Homebrand, but "Californian Craft"...the packaging actually mentioned the craft brewing explosion in the US over the past 15 years, and how Costco is pleased to be apart of this revival of truly authentic beer. Pictures of California and American Symbolism everywhere on the packaging/labels. On the underside of the slab in small print is written "Brewed by Costco and/or under licence of Costco ..their USA addresss ....by bla bla bla China."



How about also, because now the beer is er made more cheaply for the Oz market in China, but um er, more importantly is called "California Craft", the price is now $70 a slab.

As for all the awards these BUL/contract beers in NZ have received, maybe it could have something to do with the fact a lot of the small breweries in NZ are happy servicing a small area around their brewery, and don't believe in this endless growth bullshit. Maybe most of them don't bother entering these competitions, whereas the BUL/Contract ones enter every fricken event.

BTW: Here's a map listing of breweries and brew pubs for NZ and Sydney. NZ and Sydney pretty much have the same population.

I'm going on a road trip early next year around NSW, SA, Victoria, and back to the ACT. Whats the bet I don't stumble across anything in NSW pubs other than Tooheys, Carlton, VB, XXXX or BUL : (

ok for starters thats not half of the breweries listed in sydney
as for pubs with decent beer. id start on the map in this thread if you want more ask a local.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... opic=52553

as for bul. lets see the customer turns up with a recipe. gets which ever company to make it and package it, the customer supplies the packaging.
so who is it that deceiving the public.
yes and there have been some very shit beers that have been made at aib but there have been some really great ones as well. as with any brewery.
have a look at shady lady as a great example of a shit idea. if you can finish a bottle of that ill salute you.

[barls]

double post

[lob]

barls I wasn't talking about good vs bad pubs. The yellow circles represent actual breweries. The BLUE circles brewpubs....ie pubs that brew their own beer. Trust me, there's plenty of truly horrible watering holes in NZ stocking only DB or Lying Nathan products with a bottle or two of shitlager or Corona behind the counter for $9. Then there's trendy bars in Wellington with a good beer range in bottles, but, well, you may as well just hand over your wallet as you walk in. NZ is every bit the ripoff joint that Australia is, even more so. Still, they seem to be supporting their microbrewery industry better than here in Australia, esp NSW.

I know Sydney has lots of very good pubs, I used to live in the Inner West where there's plenty of competition and choice. On my road trip I'm not going to Sydney, I'm heading into country NSW and then looping back into SA. I've already visited a lot of the small towns around Canberra...the beer on tap is pretty bleak. In Goulburn there's heaps of pubs, only one that I've found has Coopers Pale on tap. (And for a reasonable price also, $5.) There are very obvious flow on effects from all this such as tourism, both from international visitors and locals themselves. It's fricken absurd that in the year 2011 you can't randomly walk into a pub/bar in Goulburn or Canberra or Sydney's West and find a good Pale, a wheat beer, etc etc on tap from at least 5 or 6 different breweries. A town the size of Goulburn should have at least 2 INDEPENDENT breweries, they should be both running at near capacity and every pub in town should be welcoming their product rather than some shit beer made in some industrial-sized plant and shipped/trucked everywhere.

I've never said the AIB make shit beers btw. I'm sure many of them are perfectly drinkable. I just didn't like Pikes Oakbank and objected to wasting $20 at Dans on it thinking it came from the Clare Valley. - Can you seriously suggest the label isn't completely deceptive? Even the name 'Independent Brewers' is deceptive, it suggests some type of an Association that smaller micros belong to, esp when the Campbelltown address is never stated on the label as the place of manufacture.
[Likewise with the two Snowy beers and that one from Byron Bay.]

and btw any similarities between Ripoff Brewers and AIB is purely coincidental : )

[milliner1986]

Noticed in the dan murpheys catalogue today that at the bottom was "# brewed under license" diclaimer on the beer page. Kosciosko pale ale did not have the hash next to it.

[Kaiser Soze]

[Likewise with the two Snowy beers and that one from Byron Bay.]

Byron Bay Premium Ale - that was the sh!t beer I was thinking of! I remember a mate of mine was the rep for them and gave me a few to try. We both agreed that it tasted so awful that we googled why, and came up with AIB as the brewer. In fact I remember reading news articles online that spke about how the residents of Byron Bay were outraged that someone had used their name for such a crap beer. Check this out for the wierdest summation of what's wrong with the marketing hype - http://www.byronbay.org/?p=395.

[emnpaul]

Check this out for the wierdest summation of what's wrong with the marketing hype - http://www.byronbay.org/?p=395.

Kind of sounds like the guys that write the local tourist blog weren't that impressed but tried to be diplomatic. Reading between the lines here but they seem to be saying "I'd rather a Hammer and Tongs".

I'm not sure you can blame AIB completely either. It seems to be another cynical marketing ploy. Refer to Lob's rant above for how the conversation might have gone...

[Kaiser Soze]

Absolutely. No blame to AIB at all, the issue lies with the businessman who came up with the idea and approached AIB.

[emnpaul]

I did say "not sure you can blame AIB completely" but I would like to think they were passionate enough about beer to not trot out such complete crap under the catch all excuse of "it's what the customer wants".

Nor am I naive enough to think that AIB aren't in business to make money. They are. However it would be nice to think that they cared enough about beer and their own reputation to do something along the lines of " This is what the customer asked for, but we can give them this for the same price and because we know what beer is meant to taste like, we know the punters will like it and the chablis sipping entrepreneur will be none the wiser". Wishful thinking I know, but I am wondering if this is part of the reason they don't proudly display "Product of Australian Independent Brewers" on the front of their bottles.