help. hop problems

[stephen]

Hi all fellow brewers

I need some help. For the past 12 months I have been working/experimenting at trying to create the perfect Little creatures pale ale clone. My last two brews have been about 95% identical to LCPA and a great drink. However, after about 3 weeks in the bottles my Cascade and Amarillo hop flavours ( which I add quite large amounts of to my brew, plus dry hop) literally vanish from the beer and I am left with a nicely coloured, cold, well carbonated but flavourless beer. I understand that Ales tend to be best drunk quite fresh, but this is ridiculous! Could someone possibly suggest why this is happening. As I have now given up and am making Nut Brown Ales and Belgian Wit Beers that tend to age very well in the bottle.

Look forward to some ideas on the matter

Regards

Stephen

[rwh]

Sounds very strange... Right now the only things I can think of are UV light, oxidation, or infection.

What's your recipe/method?

[stephen]

Yep, I know it seems strange.
I am doing Partial grain brewing. Bottles are twist top king browns and Grolsh bottles. Stored under house ( limestone) at constant temp and dark. I have decided to put them straight into refrigeration once carbonated (10 days)to try to stall the aroma and flavour decay. I will see how this goes. Any other ideas would be great.

Regards

Stephen

[drsmurto]

Listing your recipe might help.

FWIW - LCPA doesnt contain amarillo, not that cascade and amarillo isnt a great hop combo IMO. The generally accepted recipe is one that uses EKG for bittering (altho that may change with the price of this seasons EKG), with huge amounts of cascade and chinook for flavour and aroma.

The last crack i had was this one -

20L, OG 1.050, IBU 44
3.25 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 71.43 %
1.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 21.98 %
0.30 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 6.59 %
40 g Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 24.0 IBU
25 g Cascade [6.70 %] (15 min) Hops 9.2 IBU
25 g Chinook [12.40 %] (5 min) Hops 7.4 IBU
25 g Cascade [6.70 %] (5 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
25 g Cascade [6.70 %] (Dry Hop ) Hops -
25 g Chinook [12.40 %] (Dry Hop ) Hops -
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05(56)) Yeast-Ale

The aroma does fade with time in the bottle i find but I'm a kegger and dry hop in the kegs! Flavour/aroma climbs out of the pint glass and smacks you around the chops!

Cheers
DrSmurto

[gregb]

If we're talking recipes for LCPA we need a link to Boonies. Also worth considering in a thread like that is Trough Lolly's SNPA.

+1 for the Cascade and Amarillo as a great hop combo.

Cheers,
Greg

[stephen]

At work now, will post recipe later. Hops are:
20g Chinook @ 60 min,
20g Amarillo @ 45Min
20g Cascade, @ 30 min,
10g Amarillo and 10g cascade @ 15 min and again at Flame out.
Dry Hop 2ndary with Amarillo and Cascade

As you can see, lots of hops but flavour and aroma still disappear after 2-3 weeks. If I had the space and time I would do AG but happy with my weekend experimentations in Partial grain. Family and freinds also have enjoyed being my guinea pigs for the last few years.

Thanks for all the advice so far. Great forum.

Just put down a very promising Belgian Wit and Dogbolter style dark ale. These have always aged very well in the past.

Stephen