impatient and over concerned Newbie

[drsmurto]

The Grammar Nazi thread is over here

Now that was a great thread!

Anna - i simply give advice, take it at your own risk! (I really should add a disclaimer to my signature) Left my heatpads on last night and both fridges were still at 18C this morning. Its supposed to hit 17C today so switched them off.

[Anna]

And I really appreciate your advice too Doctor. So do you think now that my bottled ales are around 17C in the cupboard they will carbonate OK? (Given that you have yours at 17-18C) Anna.

[drsmurto]

Both my fridges contain fermenters (brown porter, robust porter), not bottles. I keg so I don't have to deal with that malarky.

When i bottle i do it via a keg and a counter pressure bottle filler

Bragging aside, your bottles will be fine. RDWHAHB

Cheers
DrSmurto

[warra48]

Anna,
Your beers will carbonate up just fine, provided you give them enough time at this time of the year.
It might take a month or so, or even up to 6 weeks, but you will get there in the end.

I brewed a Mild in April, botlled early May, and it's only now carbonating (although at the lower end of the scale, in keeping with the style).

[Bizier]

Bum is not one to go off half-cocked.

Umm... I think I know what that means.

[billybushcook]

The 40w light bulb in the cupboard didn't do any good. :

Anna,
I use a 40W light bulb & it works fine for me, The trick is to paint the lense black.......The reason.

Conservation of energy principle............if you still have 40 Watts of electrical energy being used, it has to be converted to some form of out put energy, in our case we don't want it being converted to light energy, so if you contain the light energy with in the light fitting, it will emit 40 Watts of heat energy (almost).

Mine is a "Bunker" style light in the bottom of an old deep freezer which I use for fermenting & bottle conditioning at the same time it is set up on a thermostatic control (Tempmate) the system has a cooling cycle as well but that's another story.



Cheers, Mick.

[Anna]

Gosh, you guys are so clever! (Must be the reason women rarely make beer LOL!) I thought the reason for blacking out the light bulb was so the light wouldn't affect the beer! In the meantime I followed DrSmurto's advice and changed the light bulb for a heatpad standing on its side and bingo! the cupboard is now a constant 17-18C. The Doc says to RDWHAHB - so I will! Thanks everyone for your great advice.

[svyturys]

onservation of energy principle............if you still have 40 Watts of electrical energy being used, it has to be converted to some form of out put energy, in our case we don't want it being converted to light energy, so if you contain the light energy with in the light fitting, it will emit 40 Watts of heat energy (almost).

Not sure of your physics here, Mick.

The filament in the lamp gives off x amount of heat and y amount of light. When the globe is clear the light can pass through and some of the heat is absorbed by the globe and some passes through. When the globe is painted black the wavelengths of visible light are absorbed by the "black". Your theory infers that if I painted a more efficient light source such as a "fluoro" tube black then it would give off more heat.
The 40 watts of electricity has been used before any light or heat hits the globe. It's the filament that uses up the energy. It takes electrical energy and converts it into heat and light in a ratio depending on its "efficiency". (An old style radiator bar works on the same principle. The heater glows at red i.e. at the lower end of the light spectrum.)

Imagine the heat and light leaving the filament. The moment it leaves, 40 watts of energy has been used. It has already been "converted to light energy" (quote from Mick in the above.) It has to travel all the way to the globe, technically a barrier. This barrier will absorb some of the energy (wavelengths) and let some energy (wavelengths) pass through.

Now if we were to apply your principle to the electric radiator then it would mean that if we placed a sheet of black painted glass in front of the radiator then it would become a more efficient heating device because the red wavelengths of light would be converted to a lower frequency and thus give off more heat. I don't think this would be the case.

Think of the colour black as being equivalent to insulation batts. If you put an insulation batt between your beer and a light globe then the heat would be absorbed by the batt and none of it would get through. The black pigment is an "insulation batt" for the light spectrum...the energy is absorbed and not let through.

I like your thinking, though, because on a sub atomic level your theory is probably correct.

Cheers

[Bum]

I have nightmares every time Mick posts a picture.

[billybushcook]

This barrier will absorb some of the energy (wavelengths) and let some energy (wavelengths) pass through.

I like your thinking, though, because on a sub atomic level your theory is probably correct.

Cheers

Comments & theory taken on board, but the simple fact is that if you contain the light energy to the smallest space possible....You will get more heat energy given off the overall fixture & less light energy thanks to the in-efeciencies of the traditional incandescent bulb (energy saving, fluro & Halogen bulbs are different) The incandescent bulb is in-efficient because it produces almost as much heat energy as it does light energy & that's why they are phaseing them out!
Your comment about painting a more efficient "Flouro" light black is the other end of the scale......Flouro's are more efficient at producing light energy & wasting less on heat energy.

That energy that is absorbed within the Blacked out lense is then transfered from the glass & fixture into the surrounding air (Enthalpy plays a part in this effeciency) & some is given off as radiant heat with very little passing through as light energy (the blacker, the better)

Bum,
What's wrong with my pics??

Cheers, Mick.

[svyturys]

You will get more heat energy given off the overall fixture & less light energy thanks to the in-efeciencies of the traditional incandescent bulb

Agree with you there, Mick.

But, you mention "Enthalpy".

Isn't enthalpy to do with liquids? ...thermodynamic properties of fluids and all that kinda stuff?

I can't see where there is any liquid stuff involved here except for beer.

That energy that is absorbed within the Blacked out lense is then transfered from the glass & fixture into the surrounding air (Enthalpy plays a part in this effeciency) & some is given off as radiant heat with very little passing through as light energy (the blacker, the better)

All that light is..that is, the light we see, is a photon jumping down from electron shell to a lower shell...VERY little energy in the physical sense. We are just luckily sensitive, as far as our eyes are concerned, to be able to detect it. Even if we could convert light into energy ...(technically we can)..there would not be any amount significant to heating beer bottles.

Maybe some wise brewer could shed some light onto this?

Cheers

[billybushcook]

But, you mention "Enthalpy".

Isn't enthalpy to do with liquids? ...thermodynamic properties of fluids and all that kinda stuff?

I can't see where there is any liquid stuff involved here except for beer.

there would not be any amount significant to heating beer bottles.

Cheers

My understanding of enthalpy is the transfer of heat from one material to another, whether it be liquid, solid or gas.
In any case, all gasses & liquids (other than Murcury) come under the overall heading of fluids, almost the same mechanical properties just different densities & viscosities (plus conductivity & compressability amoung other things) & thier rate of "enthalpy" changes with the slightly different properties from one substance to another (gas or liquid).

In my case I'm trapping the light energy & using it to heat the glass & light fixture, the rate of enthalpy between the glass & surrounding air then comes into play as it heats up the surrounding air in the brew box.

The bottom line is that as soon as my "tempmate" clicks onto heat cycle, the readout starts climbing in less than a minute & only takes about 3 Mins, to climb a full degree then shut off, it then continues to climb for another 0.5 degrees due to the risidual heat in the light fixture & that is all that matters. The probe is on the opposite side of the box so radiant heat is not directly affecting the reading.

Cheers, Mick.

[drsmurto]

Wow, I never thought I'd see the day Mick gave us all a science lesson. Very impressed!

If it wasn't for your shocking grammar I wouldn't be needed here any more!

[Anna]

Too much for me! I left school at 14 (and a half!)

[wrighty]

Geez that was deep.
Suppose i will now be refered to as a 'Enthalpy mechanic' instead of just a busted arse fridgee.

[Trough Lolly]

Too much for me! I left school at 14 (and a half!)

That's ok, so did a bloke named George Washington who managed to make a name for himself...!