Chill haze

[warra48]

If doing light style brews extended boil times can caramelize the brew
We only ever boil for 60 minutes and that gives a fantastic protein break

Where's the evidence for this?
I regularly do a 90 minute or 120 minute boil with some of my brews. Others I do only 60 minutes.
Makes absolutely no difference to the colour, as I collect enough from the sparge to ensure I have my desired final volume post boil.

How come my Pils and Weizens never have a caramelised character, even though they are boiled for a minimum of 90 minutes?

PS: Enter the draw, and let's see what others think of your brews or, if you are the lucky winner, what you think of ours.

[hirns]

Cause ya not doin it right!!!
Hirns

[Tipsy]

If doing light style brews extended boil times can caramelize the brew
We only ever boil for 60 minutes and that gives a fantastic protein break

We don’t filter or add anything to batch only cold settle and wait
Clarity is not a clear subject is it
As coppers state “cloudy but fine”
speedie

If you really are that good a brewer Speedie why aren't you involved in the christmas lotto. A chance for you to either win and receive beers from us or for us to taste your beer.

I suspect it is the possibility of having people other than your cronies tasting your beer and commenting on it that has you hiding under your rock.

All talk Speedie.

I think it's time to put up or shut up.

[gregb]

If you really are that good a brewer Speedie why aren't you involved in the christmas lotto. A chance for you to either win and receive beers from us or for us to taste your beer.

I suspect it is the possibility of having people other than your cronies tasting your beer and commenting on it that has you hiding under your rock.

All talk Speedie.

PS: Enter the draw, and let's see what others think of your brews or, if you are the lucky winner, what you think of ours.

I think it's time to put up or shut up.

The link is right here for you speedie. CLICK HERE.

[billybushcook]

Back to the subject of Beer Clarity.
Ivé recently had a break through!.....I think?
Been batteling with chill haize for ages, using Polyclar, racking, filtering & even leaving them for longer in the primary with no significant difference.

Most have suffered from Chill Haize but some have come out crystal clear & bright so I have been trying to narrow down the factors which have given me these beers.
Not only is the apperance clean & well defined but the flavour is that much brighter too!

After scouring over my notes for some time, looking at the same recipe done many times but with little differences from one to the next in an attempt to create the perfect beer as we do!

I was able to conclude that the following things made little to no change on their own.

• Building starters
  Using liquid yeasts
  extended time in the primary (3 weeks)
  Racking
  Using polyclar
  filtering
  change from 60Min to 90Min boils
  Stepped mash
  Fly Sparge instead of batch

Now that's not to say that any or all of these things don't help, for example, I do not intend to stop any of the above appart from the stepped mash (what a pain that was) & going back to Batch Sparging.
But I did notice a definate pattern in my notes involving the best, clearest beers & once I'd spotted it, it stuck out like a big hairy set of dogs......eyes

It was that every crystal clear & really crisp flavoured Pale beer had been done with a re-used yeast cake!.......Bingo!~
In most cases it was with S-04 & in all cases it was including the cold break - no washing, just a cup full from the last batch.

Can any one shed some light on this?

Cheers, Mick.

[warra48]

Maybe the brews with the cup of re-used yeast cake were the only ones you didn't underpitch ??
No evidence for this, just a thought.

[billybushcook]

Yeh I had considered that, but many of the others were kicked off with either a full Wyeast smack pack or a starter consisting of a full sachet of Safale or Saflager built up from 300ml to 600+ over the course of a few days & the difference in yeast (& break) was double in the bottom of the flask, done on a stir plate.
My Og's are only around 1.044

So it is still a posibility Warra, but I'm wondering if there is a scientific reason why a re-used yeast with cold break may have an effect on the amount of protiens left in the finished beer.

My darker beers not only hide it a little easier but don't seem to be affected as much either!

Cheers, mick

[bullfrog]

I've never had problems with chill haze and I've no idea why. I do have a filter but haven't used it since AG 4. I don't rack, I don't gellatine and I don't polyclar. All brews are in primary for around 2-3 weeks (including crash chilling) and finished brews will sit in the keg for two to three weeks before they're tapped.

Doesn't really shed too much light on anything, I know, but maybe there's something in my process that will help?

[drsmurto]

I will echo Warra's thoughts of underpitching.

It's the first thing that came to mind based on what you have posted.

Pitching a Wyeast smackpack is too close for comfort IMO. It's probably enough yeast but i don't like the word probably when describing any aspect of my brewing.

Like you Mick, i have problems with clarity occasionally but never when reusing yeastcake/topcropping or building up appropriate sized starters. The few times i have issues is when repitching old yeastcake without making a starter or when using pitching a smackpack/white labs vial directly into the wort.

Your dark beers will have a different mash pH unless you are adjusting your water so that may also be a factor.

[billybushcook]

I will echo Warra's thoughts of underpitching.
.

Have put this to the test.
just put down another PA of the same recipe but pitched 2 pkts of re-hydrated S-04.
Will see in a month or so!

Cheers & Thx, Mick.

[speedie]

billy what is your typical brew regime
do you use direct heat,infusion or rims etc
are you using three step or single
do you aggitate the mash while heating
as a thought look at the mash part of the hazing problem as the cause comes from here and not post brewing
if this is any help
my typical profile goes like this
doughin @50 and rest for 15 mins
raise to your desired saccrification temp and always strirring through to target temp rest for 45-60 min
raise to 71 and follow same proceedure hold for 15 mins
raise to 80 again while stirring right throw then transfer to lauter vessels and sparge with 77 degree water which is supplied on a continuos feed until rinsed
collect all of the wort into kettles and start hopping when and only when all of the wort is at full boil and boil is for 60 mins flat
i do this for ales and lagers and when stirring for a 400 liter batch you get a good workout as well
i think that any other way is short cutting the process and being lazy
there will be some hazing when transferring to conditioning tanks but this aways drops bright given time i set my coolroom at 1.5 and it stays there for this reason so my serving temps are at this range
i dont filter or use poly etc and the beers are always bright

i will get some flack from biabers and rimmers but this is how i learnt to brew
hope that it is of some help
cheers speedie

[billybushcook]

If you read my earlier post you would see that I had tried stepped mash with no results.
The only thing I maybe should look at in the mash is PH as Doc mentions, but I'm using a PH stabeliser so it can't be that far off the mark.

i think that any other way is short cutting the process and being lazy

Typical.

i dont filter or use poly etc and the beers are always bright

Bullshit...The one you sent me wasn't.

Apreciate your input but you don't seem to have taken any notice as to what I have already tried & eliminated.

Cheers, Mick.

[billybushcook]

Have put this to the test.
just put down another PA of the same recipe but pitched 2 pkts of re-hydrated S-04.
.

So far, got a good aggressive fermentation going, damn near blew the cling wrap off the top.

Mick.

[barrelboy]

So will you take (worth it?) some of the krausen off for other brews?
BB

[billybushcook]

Na,
Rather not risk opening it up again.
Mick.

[Gill]

Did it turn out any clearer in the end Mick?

[billybushcook]

No definate improvement.

Going to start testing my PH levels.
Even though I use a PH stabeliser.

Mick.

[drsmurto]

Not a fan of the pH stabiliser, it's a buffering agent.

There are plenty of compounds present in grain which already buffer the pH.

Not so long ago a few of the locals came up with a very drunken but cleary brilliant idea. We wanted to prove Calrton Draught wasn't made from beer. It was late at a case swap and much beer has been consumed by this point.

So we made beer from beer. The HLT was filled with a finished beer, a highly hopped APA/IPA instead of water. Beer has a beer of ~4, much lower than most water (7-8) so i took along some CaCO3 to adjust the pH. I measured the pH of the mash before adding anything and was a tad surprised to discover the pH was spot on. We normally expect the mash to lower the pH of the water, in this case it increased it.

The end result is still to be tasted as the Fg hasnt got down to where we hoped. So the jury is still out on this theory.

[emnpaul]

I was looking up how to use brewbrite and stumbled upon "making beer from beer".

Can I ask how the finished product turned out?

[drsmurto]

I was looking up how to use brewbrite and stumbled upon "making beer from beer".

Can I ask how the finished product turned out?

It got tipped.

We plan on doing it again but starting with a lightly hopped beer for the 'water'.