Dark German Lager

[Guest]

i think its weird the difference of the use of the term "dark" between ales & lagers. when talking ales i tend to think black or close to it. but from replies to this post when talking lagers it seems anything brown is "dark"

[A Deutsche Braumeister]

MR Bakshi, are you serious, you cant make true German Lager from a kit.

It doesn't make any sense, Water, Malt and Hops is all that is allowed not Water, Malt extract and Hop extract.

So you cant call a Kit recipe a true Deutsche Rezpert.

1x Coopers Bavarian Lager kit
1Kg Light Dry Malt extract (Or 1.2Kg Light Liquid Malt Extract)
1Kg (*) Munich Malt
200g melanoidin malt
15g Hallertau hops


True German Beer can only be made in accordance with the Reinheitsgebot

The Complete Reinheitsgebot Text Translated

We hereby proclaim and decree, by Authority of our Province, that henceforth in the Duchy of Bavaria, in the country as well as in the cities and marketplaces, the following rules apply to the sale of beer:

From Michaelmas to Georgi, the price for one Mass [Bavarian Liter 1,069] or one Kopf [bowl-shaped container for fluids, not quite one Mass], is not to exceed one Pfennig Munich value, and

From Georgi to Michaelmas, the Mass shall not be sold for more than two Pfennig of the same value, the Kopf not more than three Heller [Heller usually one-half Pfennig].

If this not be adhered to, the punishment stated below shall be administered.

Should any person brew, or otherwise have, other beer than March beer, it is not to be sold any higher than one Pfennig per Mass.

Furthermore, we wish to emphasize that in future in all cities, markets and in the country, the only ingredients used for the brewing of beer must be Barley, Hops and Water. Whosoever knowingly disregards or transgresses upon this ordinance, shall be punished by the Court authorities' confiscating such barrels of beer, without fail.

Should, however, an innkeeper in the country, city or markets buy two or three pails of beer (containing 60 Mass) and sell it again to the common peasantry, he alone shall be permitted to charge one Heller more for the Mass of the Kopf, than mentioned above. Furthermore, should there arise a scarcity and subsequent price increase of the barley (also considering that the times of harvest differ, due to location), WE, the Bavarian Duchy, shall have the right to order curtailments for the good of all concerned.

[Hillbilly]

Willkommen Her Deutsche Braumeister, I think that MR Bakshi understands that he can't make a true German lager as in your 'copy/pasted' Reinheitsgebot but he's trying to get as close to the origional taste as possible, so he can proudly enjoy he's own version of a German lager. But if he's recipie is'nt even close could you please tell us how we can make a true German lager according to the Reinheitsgebot?
Bitte ein antwort bitte.

[Dogger Dan]

I would argue that malt extract and barley are the same thing, just one is further processed. The same for the hop extract.

That Law was written before these extracts were around. I would suggest that you read the essence into the law. It was designed to force people to make a drinkable beer, rather than allow people to cheat.

As malt extract comes from malting barley and then dehydrated to some point to reduce water content and hop extract comes from extracting the alpha acids frome the hop and concentrating it I believe that the criteria described by the act be met and yes you can make a legit German Lager from the ingredients stated.

Dogger

[gregb]

Does any one know if the law is still enforced?

I have seen a few beers advertise that they are brewed in accordance with the German Purity Law (I cannot remember which beers...) but I am curious as to whether this is marketing spin on something that they have to do anyway etc.

Of course German law counts for little outside of Germany.

Greg.

[Guest]

i'm pretty sure the law is not enforced & was pretty much a farce. put in place to protect german brewers against cheaper imports. load of rubbish. alot of german brewers these days use adjuncts

[Tony]

With the arrival of the EU, Reinheitsgebot has been repealed. However, many German brewers still use it for marketing purposes. Non-German brewers (e.g. Grolsch) are also using this approach to give them better traction in the German market.

Tony

[Dogger Dan]

No its not enforced, unless there is some secret sect out there doing it.

It was designed to stop people from putting things like saw dust in beer,

I will differ to Geoff on this one, him having earned a place at the Bar.

To me though, having had only two courses in Law, it is the flavour of the law you are looking for, not the actual wording, ie if I were to put raspberries or honey in my beer, I shouldn't be affected by the Act, as it was writen to prevent people from putting crap garbage in their brews that could hurt me and mine and then charging coin. Mind you in defence of the act I couldn't call my brew a true lager either.

By the way, it is one of the largest major acomplishments regarding food of its time as it was the first time a group of people put standards against a consumable that was bought and sold. It is still talked about today in many food science courses

Mr. Bakshis' brew meets the flavour of the law in my own minds eye, hence it can be called a true lager should he/she so desire.

Dogger

[db]

IMO Mesa sums it up pretty well in this post on beertools.com:

http://beertools.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... heitsgebot

Reinheitzgefacts...
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:47 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Among brewers, pro & home alike, there are misconceptions that have earned urban legend status:

The RL was introduced to ensure quality.

Wrong!... read the whole text and you will discover that it was intended
to protect the domestic beer market and producers by barring the
importation of beer from other countries. This is why this is actually a
FORMER law... the formation of the EU and the admittance of countries
into the union required the elimination of trade barriers among
members. The RL fell into this prohibited practice clause.

The Reinheitzgebot has basically been reduced to a marketing gimmick,
although a good number of German brewers try to still follow it's
dictates. An example of a well known German brewer who prints RL
compliant messages on their labels and literature, Beck Brauerei GMBH,
is actually an adjuncted lager. Their darker lager is actually produced
using caramel coloring, also a non-compliant practice under the former
law.

I recently completed a Weihenstephan course of study that was attended mostly by US brewers. The discussion of how the German brewers who actually do try to comply feel about the restrictions and the heroics required to do so while maintaining economies of scale dominated many, many discussions. The upshot is that the majority of the breweries hate that they feel compelled to use the practices which are time and resource intensive. In light of the more consistent and better methods of maximizing beer quality and efficiency that brewing science has revealed in the last 25~30 years, they find themselves constrained in an increasingly unrealistic dilemma. In some cases, those who did not change their practices to meet threats from competitors who had changed have closed. This is because they lost their ability to compete effectively against their competitors who established a cost advantage WITHOUT a decrease in quality.

Without the deviation from another countries tennants, a large number of revered, accepted classical and new beer styles would never have been created. Herb beers, fruit beers, honey beers, Cream Ale, many Belgian Ales and many English Ales are just a few examples. Every country's brewing styles and ingredients were largely resultant from the availability of indigenous starch sources and bittering and flavoring agents. Many practices such as step and decoction mashing were developed simply because of the inferior nature of the raw materials which is no longer the case.

I am of the belief that there is plenty of room for the creation of new beer styles and flavors that may at some point become classically recognized styles. A few of the most recent have been American in origin... American IPA, American Pale Ale Imperial IPA, American Light Lager, Pre-Prohibition Pilsner & Imperial Red Ale to name a few. There have been a coulple of revisions and definitions among the German beer styles, but no new styles have been created for a long, long time by German brewers. This is a result of the stifiling effect of what is perceived as "traditional" in their country. Meanwhile, their market is erroding to their non-German competiton.

Following archaic rules can make one feel traditional and committed but should not be used as a source of elitism as if it is the ONLY way to produce quality beer. Brewing beer is an ever evolving art and science. Maybe by relaxing a bit and being creative, you may be the proginatior of the next great beer style!

[Deustche Braumeister]

Here is a typical Dunkel recipe. It is easy to follow if you look between the lines:

Hefe: untergrig

Stammwarze: 12,5 %

Hopfenbittere: 30 EBU

Bierfarbe: 50 EBC

Alkohol: 5,1 Vol.-%

Aballzeitpunkt: 3,5 %

Schattung:

4200 g Munchner Malz
220 g Caramalz dunkel
30 g Farbmalz

3-stufiges Infusionsmaischverfahren:

Einmaischen: bei 38 °C
1 Rast: 40 Minuten bei 52 °C
2 Rast: 40 Minuten bei 62 °C
3 Rast: 40 Minuten bei 72 °C
Abmaischen bei 76 °C

Kochzeit:

90 Minuten
Zuckerzugabe zur Mitte der Kochzeit

Bitterung:

60 g Aromahopfen (5,5 %)
in 2 Zugaben:
40 g nach Kochbeginn, 20 g vor Kochende

[Hillbilly]

Eum.....good one Braumeister, this might help guys.
http://translate.google.com/translate_t

[umop-3p|sdn]

I'm going to be putting down a batch tomorrow using the ESB fresh winter bock, a little extra water (to bring it up to 21L) and 1.5kg of extra malt.
My LHBS guy reckons it will be pretty bloody nice (it would want to be for $70!!), and will be around 8%.

Also, I'll be using a Wyeast Octoberfest liquid yeast. Will let you all know how it goes in a few months!

[Wimmig]

Out of curiosity, how does one become a member of said establishment?

$$$$$$$$