First Partial

[yardglass]

Hi everyone,

I've read as much as i can on this subject and i'm fairly well up to speed. (I hope).
To keep it simple to start with i want to use a 1kg bag with a Kit. Extract later.
Just need a couple of suggestions to kick things off.

Is any particular Grain type easier to use than another ?
Is the Grain crushed when you buy it ? If not how do you do it ?
How critical is the correct temp? (Grumpys says 65*-68* for 75 min for 1kg of Pale Malted Barley)
Do i have to make large adjustments to the other sugars normally added ?
Finally, how have your Brews improved from the use of some Grain.

Whew... sorry for the interrogation.

appreciate any tips ( Randwick, Race7, #4 ).

yardglass

[gregb]

Yardie,

Can highly recomend
http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter13.html

Crystal Malt is the easiest to use for the introduction, as it can be steeped. You can buy it in most HBS's either crushed or whole.

A number of HBS's carry grain enhancer packs which add flavor, body and character to a beer with only a small contribution to the fermentables. These work well as a starting point also.

Good luck and let us know how you go.

Cheers,
Greg.

[Dogger Dan]

Crystal is the easiest and gives good bang for what you get

Dogger

[Antsvb]

Gregb

Can 'steeping' be classed as a 'partial', or is a partial only when there has been mashing involved?

[db]

Gregb

Can 'steeping' be classed as a 'partial', or is a partial only when there has been mashing involved?

tough q Ants
I'd be inclined to call the use of crystal grain & steeping a "extract + specialty grain" brew rather than a "partial mash"..... but that's just being picky i guess

[Antsvb]

Same as what I was thinking, but thought I'd ask as I'm getting a feel of all the terms and different levels of brewers out there. Much wider mind since I started on here.

[Jay]

I too thought steeping was totally different to mashing.

I thought steeping contributes flavour and colour but doesn't contribute much sugar to the entire brew whereas mashing does contribute large amounts of sugar. I suppose it all comes down to what's the difference in flavour and sugar extraction between steeping and mashing?

I would have though that 1kg of crystal malt along with a kit would be a bit much seeing as though most people only recommend 500g to be steeped at the maximum. Most patial mash recipes I've seen recommend 1-2kg of pale malt.

Just when you think you've got it all sorted something else pops up to confuse.

jay.

[yardglass]

ok then....

Just returned from the HBS with..
Morgans Pale Malt Extract
1kg Brewcraft Crystal Grain, Cracked
1kg Malt

The HBS staff are very limited with their knowledge, so arn't much help.
I'm still a bit unclear as to what to do here, do i mash this grain, or steep it ?
a bit slow on the uptake i know , just want to be sure of what i'm doing.

cheers
yardglass

[Antsvb]

Yardie,

From my knowledge, crystal is a specialty grain and should be steeped (is that a word?). Wouldn't use a kg but, maybe 200-500grams.

Someone else should be able to confirm.

[gregb]

Not really sure where the line between a steep and a partial mash falls.

I would guess I was steeping if I merely tip not quite boiling water on a small amount (200 gm ish) of grain and let it sit for 20 mins or so. A partial mash you try and hold a particular temp (60 odd degress Celsius) for an hour or so on more grain (half kilo or more).

Would this be a fair assessment?

As to Crystal grain - it can be steeped or mashed.

Also from a complexity point of view steeping for 20 mins and tipping in on top of a kit is easier than mini-mashing and adding to unhopped extract, then boiling with hops (flowers, plugs or pellets) for an hour or so.

Steeping a bit of crystal on a kit is a great way to start with graining.

Cheers,
Greg

[Aussie Claret]

Hi Yardglass,
Just one point that nobody has seemed tp pick up on and thats the hops, you'll need to add some for bittering at least; otherwise you'll end up with an extremely sweet beer. The hops will depend upon your taste and whether and ale or lager but a good bittering hop and some aroma hops should be considered.
Cheers
AC

[db]

From my knowledge, crystal is a specialty grain and should be steeped (is that a word?). Wouldn't use a kg but, maybe 200-500grams.

i agree. i generally use around 150-200g in a pale ale.. & 300-350g in bigger beers (ipa's, bitters etc). & if thats the only grain i'm using i dont bother mashing i just steep

[yardglass]

As to Crystal grain - it can be steeped or mashed.

Also from a complexity point of view steeping for 20 mins and tipping in on top of a kit is easier than mini-mashing and adding to unhopped extract, then boiling with hops (flowers, plugs or pellets) for an hour or so.


Cheers,
Greg

Thanks for your replies guys.

I think i'm on the right track now, please let me know if you see any glaring f!@kups with this...

Mash 1kg Cracked Crystal @ 65*-68* for 75min in esky, sieve and rinse with 2lt hot water into 11lt pot.
Boil with Morgans Pale Extract for 45min with ..
1kg L.D.M
250gm Golden Syrup
250gm Sunflower/Ironbark Honey
Hallertau pellets at 20, 10, 1. ( not sure of quantities ).
Safale or W34/70 Yeasts

gregb,
not sure, but a mini-mash is a small AG isn't it ?

thanks
yardglass

[thehipone]

1kg of crystal is probably too much. 500g at most. With that much crystal and over 2kg of extract, you're going to want some extra hop bitterness for balance. If you're going to bother to boil for 45 mins, oyu may as well go for a full 60. It's a little tough to advise on the quantities without knowing the style you're trying to hit, but with the ingredients you have there you could probably make a decent ESB with some proper English hops. The crystal and sugar are completely appropriate in this style.

Also,
There seems to be some confusion regarding mashing vs. steeping.

A Mash has to contain a base malt (such as pilsener, pale ale, munich), these grains contain a number of enzymes that convert the starches in the grains to fermentable sugars. If there is no base malt, it isnt a mash.

A partial mash is the same as above (some base malt) except it is supplemented with some extract to make up the final gravity.

Since crystal has already had its starches converted to sugars all you really have to do is put it in hot water (steep) to get them into solution.

[Brainface]

...and then im guessing you strain off the grain, and just add the liquid into fermenter with the extract?

(Im trying to catch on - rookie)

[Herby]

hey yardglass,

The process you are describing is basically where I'm up to with my brewing, with a few exceptions. It looks like your doing a partial mash with grains which only need to be steeped. My understanding of crystal is that it is grains which have been mashed to a degree and the sugars are then allowed to crystalise. Therefore it is only necessary to heat up in water to get the colour and flavours into your wort (no real fermentables though).

Also instead of using straight malt extract, I try to use a good quality kit (added near the end of the boil) therefore it is already bittered. The recipe you've described will most probably have next to no bittereness, and end up way too sweet. The hop schedule you've listed is pretty close to what I do to add flavour and aroma.

The other thing with using grains is that 1 kg of grains does not equal 1 kg of malt extract. From what I can gather it is anywhere between 60-80% (I've assumed this is what they are refering to when you hear AG'ers talk about mash efficiency). Therefore I add a bit of extra extract to my wort, say 500gm's.

And to answer the last question, a mini mash is not an AG...most of your fermentables are coming from the malt extract.

If you can get some base malt instead of the crystal, and sort the bitterness issue out, you are very close to making some kick arse beers.

p.s and if I've said anything that's wrong some one please let me know as I'm always keen to learn how to make better beer.

cheers
herby

[yardglass]

thehipone and herby,
thanks heaps guys, getting closer.

How's this..
Steep 500gm Crystal for 20-30min
Boil with Coopers Bavarian (unsure of time)
1kg L.D.M
250gm golden syrup
250gm honey
Saaz as well as Hallertau Pellets (again, unsure of qty or time)
w34/70.

p.s. anyone got a rough calculation for the above ?
p.p.s hip1, whats an ESB ?

thanks again
yardglass

[Dogger Dan]

Extra Strong I do believe is what ESB is refering to, sometimes known as 80 p

Pitch the Golden Syrup and add 500 g of honey

That will burn in around 5.5 to 6 percent

Assuming that is 1.7 kg can, 1 kg malt extract (dry) 500 g Crystal, 500 honey

Use about 1/2 oz (13 g) Saaz for 20 min boil

the other half as a dry hop or in final minute.

Use about 1 tsp Irish Moss in final 20 min of boil too, It will take away chill haze

Dogger

[db]

ESB stands for Extra Special Bitter.. well at least the fullers version does. & i think they were the brewery to coin the name?

[Jay]

Maybe try a partial mash with 1kg of pale malt and 250-500g crystal. Can this be done?

Jay.