Kit Yeasts as Nutrient

[yardglass]

Guys and Gals,

As I very rarely use the supplied yeast I have a section of the Fridge piling up with them.

Is it right that these can be put into the Boil and therefore become a Nutrient for the Pitched Yeast ?

thanks
yard

[db]

apparently so YG.. i've done it a couple of times. but now use a yeast nutrient.. not that i've noticed any differences in the fermentation

[silkworm]

Sorry no answers here just that I've the same collection of dried yeast.
I hadn't thought of what to do with them other than for emergencies.

[yardglass]

cheers guys,

i think it's supposed to reduce the lag.

don't know if it would alter the flavour profile of the pitched yeast ?

tg

[Tyberious Funk]

Guys and Gals,

As I very rarely use the supplied yeast I have a section of the Fridge piling up with them.

I'm not sure I understand this philosophy. Unless you're experimenting with the recipe why not try the supplied yeast? Sure, sometimes they are dormant... but at least give them a try.

I didn't think there was much difference between, say, a standard kit beer ale yeast and Safale.

Sure, if you are ditching the supplied yeast because you are using a liquid yeast...

[silkworm]

I'm not sure I understand this philosophy. Unless you're experimenting with the recipe why not try the supplied yeast? Sure, sometimes they are dormant... but at least give them a try.
I didn't think there was much difference between, say, a standard kit beer ale yeast and Safale.
Sure, if you are ditching the supplied yeast because you are using a liquid yeast...

My yeast collection has come from experimenting with known good yeasts.
Mostly lager yeasts during the winter.
If I've done a double kit mix I'll have one yeast left over.
If I've pitched a yeast starter from a coopers bottle.
Heaps of reasons to do it and plenty of yeast now in the fridge.
Sure if it is a stock standard kit and mix then I'd agree with you Ty

[yardglass]

Guys and Gals,

As I very rarely use the supplied yeast I have a section of the Fridge piling up with them.

why not try the supplied yeast? Sure, sometimes they are dormant... but at least give them a try.

I didn't think there was much difference between, say, a standard kit beer ale yeast and Safale.

Sure, if you are ditching the supplied yeast because you are using a liquid yeast...

TF,

As I progress with my HB, I'm starting to spend more $$$ on what I put into it.

I don't really want to take the chance that a Yeast might be dormant for the sake of a few extra $.

I havn't exactly done side by side comparisons but, a taste test of a Lager with Kit Yeast and a Lager with W34/70( temp control ), speaks for itself imho.

My LHBS won't even consider getting liquid yeasts, so for specific beers i'll go for the next best thing.

I agree with using the kit supplied yeast for a quick brew but they are getting rarer these days.

cheers
yardy

[NTRabbit]

I didn't think there was much difference between, say, a standard kit beer ale yeast and Safale.

There is a big difference between a standard lager kit yeast and a Saflager yeast though - that being that a standard lager kit yeast is almost always an Ale yeast. Easy to stockpile a fair few cheap sachets during winter.

[Chris]

Skipping the whole 'thread hijack' thing...

Back on point, kit yeasties make beautiful yeast nutrient. They do not effect flavour at all, just make sure you kill them first. The only way they affect flavour, is if they are alive to ferment beer themselves.

The principle behind yeasties as nutrient is: when yeast first contacts the growth medium (ie. your wort), they massively and rapidly multiply. This not only acts to exclude bacteria getting hold of your wort, but is also necessary to produce enough yeast to ferment your beer thoroughly (hence the big yeast cake post-brew).

The yeast obviously need food to multiply. They also require the basic proteins that make up thier entire biochemistry. These are produced by the yeast themselves, but it takes time and energy on the yeasties part. This process can be quite stressful to the yeast, until they become fully established.

If you provide these proteins and other 'yeastical' elements at the beginning of fermentation, the yeast does not need to expend as much energy on synthesizing these proteins, therefore they multiply more quickly, and start fermenting wort more rapidly and efficiently. And the best source of yeast proteins is... You guessed it. Yeast.

Hope this helps all you brewers out there.

[yardglass]

Skipping the whole 'thread hijack' thing...

Back on point, kit yeasties make beautiful yeast nutrient.

just make sure you kill them first.

Chris,
Thanks Champ,

Any idea when to add to the boil or is not important ?

cheers
yardy

[db]

If you provide these proteins and other 'yeastical' elements at the beginning of fermentation, the yeast does not need to expend as much energy on synthesizing these proteins, therefore they multiply more quickly, and start fermenting wort more rapidly and efficiently. And the best source of yeast proteins is... You guessed it. Yeast.

i think the main elements you want out of the dried yeast is zinc & magnesium (among other things.. not 100% sure about protiens) & the dried yeast is packaged with these 'nutrients' to ensure a quick start to fermentation & limit the stressing of the yeast from the dehydrating & rehydrating etc.. i tend to either add the nutrient late in the boil (5mins for dried yeast.. to kill off the yeast) or post boil (dry nutrient). i believe that adding it earlier in the boil you would boil off the nutrient you are trying to add

[Chris]

DB, zinc and magnesium are both important for yeast propogation, and the dead kit yeast provides that, as does nutrient.

You cannot boil off the magnesium and zinc in either nutrient, or dead yeasties- that is a myth.

I personally do not boil the yeast for any significant period, I just put them in a little tap water overnight, then empty a kettle onto them. Once they are rehydrated in the first step, the boiling water kills them immediately. I am being a bit pedantic doing 10 or so hours in the tap water, as it can be safely done in 2. I perfer safale to sorryale.

[db]

DB, zinc and magnesium are both important for yeast propogation, and the dead kit yeast provides that, as does nutrient.

You cannot boil off the magnesium and zinc in either nutrient, or dead yeasties- that is a myth.

I personally do not boil the yeast for any significant period, I just put them in a little tap water overnight, then empty a kettle onto them. Once they are rehydrated in the first step, the boiling water kills them immediately. I am being a bit pedantic doing 10 or so hours in the tap water, as it can be safely done in 2. I perfer safale to sorryale.

nice one
do you think it's really necessary to re-hydrate the yeast before killing it? & if the boil doesnt affect the z&m levels etc. would it not be easier (& more sterile) to just add it to the boil instead of re-hydrating, then adding hot water etc?
cheers
db

[Chris]

I rehydrate so that the killing of the yeast is instantaneous. That way, the yeast proteins are not completely denatured by the heat of a 10 minute boil. A quick splash in boiling water will not do this, but the longer time will.

[yardglass]

Thanks for all the info Chris.

yard

[db]

I rehydrate so that the killing of the yeast is instantaneous. That way, the yeast proteins are not completely denatured by the heat of a 10 minute boil. A quick splash in boiling water will not do this, but the longer time will.

Cheers Chris. i guess this means a yeast nutrient containing dead yeast should not be boiled?

[Chris]

You can, but you won't get as much overall benefit.

Good luck fellow yeast killers

[flosso]

Thanks for all the info Chris,

When you re-hydrate the yeast overnight, do you make sure it stays in an air-tight container or do you rely on the boiling water the day after to kill off any potential nasties?

[Chris]

I just do it in a jug, with some gladwrap over the top. Don't overdo the amount of water you put in to re-hydrate, just use 50-100ml. Put as much boiling water in as you can, so that you rapidly bring up the temperature of the whole yeast-liquid. I usually add ~1L just to make sure.

[kosmo]

hey Chris,

do you use just the one packet of yeast for this? I've got a few built up, but haven't yet created the nutrient.

cheers
Ian

I just do it in a jug, with some gladwrap over the top. Don't overdo the amount of water you put in to re-hydrate, just use 50-100ml. Put as much boiling water in as you can, so that you rapidly bring up the temperature of the whole yeast-liquid. I usually add ~1L just to make sure.