Guy's,
I have never tried these generic brands before, but i do know a little about marketing and i can tell you that a lot of the time the generic brand is exactly the same as the well known label.
Infact, it is most certainly made by one of the few big boys in the market ie Coopers, Morgans etc.
Do you buy generic butter, eggs milk and bread? or do you pay the extra money for the label?
Now i am not sugesting that the generic brand is going to be of the same standard as the most expensive Coopers product ( premium Range), but it would likely be as good as there cheapest
Any food product by law must list the ingredients. Just read the labels and you may well be surprised that some times the generic brand is better than the well known label.
Savings and Homebrand
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Dogger Dan
- Posts: 3168
- Joined: Thursday Aug 26, 2004 10:43 am
- Location: Lucan, Ontario, Canada
I buy the brand, we make generic and unlike your comment it does not have the same quality control attached to it that brand does. It is also a cheaper formulation.
Dogger
Dogger
"Listening to someone who brews their own beer is like listening to a religous fanatic talk about the day he saw the light" Ross Murray, Montreal Gazette
damo,
possibly some of the generic brands are just coopers kits repackaged, but probably not because coopers want too much for them in bulk - yes, you can buy massive buckets of coopers draught pre-hopped home brew kit mix. the most likely option is that it's simply cheap bulk generic confectionary malt with cheap bulk isohop extract added. not the best. but, since coopers provide most of the malt used in the australian food industry, it's highly likely that it's just bulk coopers malt with that good old isohop extract added to it. they can sell the malt in 205L barrels if you want it. also, and this is the big thing, generic kits always come with terrible yeast.
i made a bilo brand lager a couple of weeks ago just as an experiment to see exactly how good or bad the malt is in the kit. i'll post my recipe below:
bilo pale ale (bilo lager)
total volume: 11.5L
1 can of bilo lager (1.7kg)
20g cascade hop pellets
white labs wlp001 californian ale yeast - i threw away the bilo yeast
got 3L of water boiling in a largeish pot and added the can of bilo lager. i boiled this for about 5mins (to begin hot breaking it) and then added 10g of cascade hop pellets. i boiled this for 10mins and then shut off the heat. i added this to the fermenter and then added another 10g of cascade hop pellets on top of the hot wort in the fermenter. i let this stand for a min and then filled up to the 11.5L line with cold water. i pitched my wlp001 yeast starter (which i prepared earlier) and let it ferment.
it smelled and tasted pretty nice coming out of the fermenter on bottling day but i had an esb fresh wort brewing right next to it at the same time and i have to say that the difference in head retention between the two was massive. the bilo one had virtually no head retention. my guess is poor quality malt because i sure as hell used a good yeast. i threw that bilo garbage yeast away (i've brewed one with it before and it was woeful).
this was an experiment to see fairly how good the malt is in these kind of kits. i know the hopping rate is pretty low in the bilo lager, that's why doubled the concentration. my guess is that it's at about 35ibu now
i say fairly because i hopped it out with flavour and aroma hops and used a decent yeast. i know how bad the bilo yeast is so i don't need to do that experiment again... bakers yeast mixed with sand and eye crust. first impressions of the malt quality though aren't promising. it certainly doesn't taste like brewers coopers light malt. though i've noticed that the industry sized malt extracts state that the light malt is made with both unmalted and malted barley. they also make a standard grade in addition to the wheat, dark and amber grades. so, maybe it is coopers. time will tell i guess.
everyone with a spare fermenter, get brewing a generic kit
-wombat
possibly some of the generic brands are just coopers kits repackaged, but probably not because coopers want too much for them in bulk - yes, you can buy massive buckets of coopers draught pre-hopped home brew kit mix. the most likely option is that it's simply cheap bulk generic confectionary malt with cheap bulk isohop extract added. not the best. but, since coopers provide most of the malt used in the australian food industry, it's highly likely that it's just bulk coopers malt with that good old isohop extract added to it. they can sell the malt in 205L barrels if you want it. also, and this is the big thing, generic kits always come with terrible yeast.
i made a bilo brand lager a couple of weeks ago just as an experiment to see exactly how good or bad the malt is in the kit. i'll post my recipe below:
bilo pale ale (bilo lager)
total volume: 11.5L
1 can of bilo lager (1.7kg)
20g cascade hop pellets
white labs wlp001 californian ale yeast - i threw away the bilo yeast
got 3L of water boiling in a largeish pot and added the can of bilo lager. i boiled this for about 5mins (to begin hot breaking it) and then added 10g of cascade hop pellets. i boiled this for 10mins and then shut off the heat. i added this to the fermenter and then added another 10g of cascade hop pellets on top of the hot wort in the fermenter. i let this stand for a min and then filled up to the 11.5L line with cold water. i pitched my wlp001 yeast starter (which i prepared earlier) and let it ferment.
it smelled and tasted pretty nice coming out of the fermenter on bottling day but i had an esb fresh wort brewing right next to it at the same time and i have to say that the difference in head retention between the two was massive. the bilo one had virtually no head retention. my guess is poor quality malt because i sure as hell used a good yeast. i threw that bilo garbage yeast away (i've brewed one with it before and it was woeful).
this was an experiment to see fairly how good the malt is in these kind of kits. i know the hopping rate is pretty low in the bilo lager, that's why doubled the concentration. my guess is that it's at about 35ibu now
i say fairly because i hopped it out with flavour and aroma hops and used a decent yeast. i know how bad the bilo yeast is so i don't need to do that experiment again... bakers yeast mixed with sand and eye crust. first impressions of the malt quality though aren't promising. it certainly doesn't taste like brewers coopers light malt. though i've noticed that the industry sized malt extracts state that the light malt is made with both unmalted and malted barley. they also make a standard grade in addition to the wheat, dark and amber grades. so, maybe it is coopers. time will tell i guess.
everyone with a spare fermenter, get brewing a generic kit
-wombat
its more than likely that all generic kits are just repackaged malt.. whether it be made by coopers or another manufacturer.. it makes sense - i dont really think coles is gonna start mashing & producing malts when they can buy it from a maufacturer (without the overheads for production) - buy it, brand it, mark it up, & sell it.. on the confectionary malt theory i don't think it makes sense that coles etc is buying malt then hopping it themselves, it makes more sense (& probly profits) to buy the finished product in one go..
it's a fair enough call that it may not be as good the premium coopers (or any other brand) range.. but to slag it off as confectionary malt etc. without even trying it (or atleast reading the ingredients) is a big call..
i'm interested to hear how your brew will turn out wombat.. i've done a few h'brand kits myself & your receipe sounds fine..
i'd be even more interested to hear the results of a "pepsi challenge" done on brewers who write h'brand etc off
[/i]
it's a fair enough call that it may not be as good the premium coopers (or any other brand) range.. but to slag it off as confectionary malt etc. without even trying it (or atleast reading the ingredients) is a big call..
i'm interested to hear how your brew will turn out wombat.. i've done a few h'brand kits myself & your receipe sounds fine..
i'd be even more interested to hear the results of a "pepsi challenge" done on brewers who write h'brand etc off
[/i]The majority if not all homebrand/generic products are outsourced. the supermarkets do not set up their own manufacturing plants. this is shown with Dick Smith Foods. He didn't set up plants, instead looked for Aussie manufacturers and negotiated a deal. his peanut butter was made by Greens. it may be the same as their recipe or may be made to a slightly different.
Generic homebrew is most likely made by a brewer. price is kept low by either lesser quality raw ingerdients or lesser quality control, shortcuts saving time or more water in the product.
Generic homebrew is most likely made by a brewer. price is kept low by either lesser quality raw ingerdients or lesser quality control, shortcuts saving time or more water in the product.
BPJ
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Dogger Dan
- Posts: 3168
- Joined: Thursday Aug 26, 2004 10:43 am
- Location: Lucan, Ontario, Canada
Here is the scoop on Generic Materials.
They are cheaper right, why
Even though they are made by the big boys the quality control obn the product is much less ridgid than on Brand products. This means that the reapability of the product is not as easy with generic as with a brand that has tight parameters.
Additionally, the formulation does not have to be the same as a brand product. ie If Coopers makes a Lager under the Brand Formulation, it does not have to be same as the generic. So the generic can have more invert or dex, different malt quality from a colour perspective, less diastalic enzyme in the malt making it less fermentable or lend themselves to stuck fermentations. Additionally, the yeast quality does not have to be the same.
So yes, they are made by the big boys but to think you are getting brand quality may be a mistake
That is what I meant.
Dogger
They are cheaper right, why
Even though they are made by the big boys the quality control obn the product is much less ridgid than on Brand products. This means that the reapability of the product is not as easy with generic as with a brand that has tight parameters.
Additionally, the formulation does not have to be the same as a brand product. ie If Coopers makes a Lager under the Brand Formulation, it does not have to be same as the generic. So the generic can have more invert or dex, different malt quality from a colour perspective, less diastalic enzyme in the malt making it less fermentable or lend themselves to stuck fermentations. Additionally, the yeast quality does not have to be the same.
So yes, they are made by the big boys but to think you are getting brand quality may be a mistake
That is what I meant.
Dogger
"Listening to someone who brews their own beer is like listening to a religous fanatic talk about the day he saw the light" Ross Murray, Montreal Gazette
Hi
I agree. Think about it, most of the big producers have a range of products from cheap to premium. They do this by having a range of different recipes and ingredients.
Anyone who thinks they are getting the premium range when they are buying Homebrand, just because it comes from the same factory, is as thick as.
I have bought a range of "no name" products from time to time and they usually suck. ie baked beans, yep same beans, same taste (almost) but bean to sauce ratios? vastely different, talking of the sauce.... more like water.
Interestingly, Woolworths used to claim their Woolworths branded products where premium quality, ie Woolworths Brand, not there Homebrand and I agree usually excellent but not the cheapest.
Also a few people mentioned quality, usually quality relates not just to standard but to variability. That is the chance that the no name brand has a very broad range of acceptable tolorences. This give the big players an outlet for "failed" product (for premium products, but still ok if close enough is good enough for other products). It's the posibility of variability that would put me off, think you get it right one time and then fail the next.
With production of goods these days so automated and exact, and prices so competeative you really do only get what you pay for when you compare apples to apples.
I agree. Think about it, most of the big producers have a range of products from cheap to premium. They do this by having a range of different recipes and ingredients.
Anyone who thinks they are getting the premium range when they are buying Homebrand, just because it comes from the same factory, is as thick as.
I have bought a range of "no name" products from time to time and they usually suck. ie baked beans, yep same beans, same taste (almost) but bean to sauce ratios? vastely different, talking of the sauce.... more like water.
Interestingly, Woolworths used to claim their Woolworths branded products where premium quality, ie Woolworths Brand, not there Homebrand and I agree usually excellent but not the cheapest.
Also a few people mentioned quality, usually quality relates not just to standard but to variability. That is the chance that the no name brand has a very broad range of acceptable tolorences. This give the big players an outlet for "failed" product (for premium products, but still ok if close enough is good enough for other products). It's the posibility of variability that would put me off, think you get it right one time and then fail the next.
With production of goods these days so automated and exact, and prices so competeative you really do only get what you pay for when you compare apples to apples.
Rob
With confidence speak up & have your say.
Appreciate, accept and look forward to being wrong.
While ever your learning, your forever young.
With confidence speak up & have your say.
Appreciate, accept and look forward to being wrong.
While ever your learning, your forever young.
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Dogger Dan
- Posts: 3168
- Joined: Thursday Aug 26, 2004 10:43 am
- Location: Lucan, Ontario, Canada
Robin,
I agree whole heartedly. By the way, are there still the winerys down your way. I used to see a Hunter Valley brand on the shelves but not anymore
Dogger
I agree whole heartedly. By the way, are there still the winerys down your way. I used to see a Hunter Valley brand on the shelves but not anymore
Dogger
"Listening to someone who brews their own beer is like listening to a religous fanatic talk about the day he saw the light" Ross Murray, Montreal Gazette
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Dogger Dan
- Posts: 3168
- Joined: Thursday Aug 26, 2004 10:43 am
- Location: Lucan, Ontario, Canada
Niagra if you are a local.
Napa, France, Germany, if you are stuck up,
Chili if you think you know something no one else does.
My basement if you know whats good for you
Dogger
Napa, France, Germany, if you are stuck up,
Chili if you think you know something no one else does.
My basement if you know whats good for you
Dogger
"Listening to someone who brews their own beer is like listening to a religous fanatic talk about the day he saw the light" Ross Murray, Montreal Gazette
I disagree with robineles coment "Anyone who thinks they are getting the premium range when they are buying Homebrand, just because it comes from the same factory, is as thick as."
I was comparing homebrand jam for example and it actually contained more fruit than the expensive brands.
Like with all generic brands try them out and read the labels and don't be like an osterich and stick your head in the sand and claim them all as rubish
I was comparing homebrand jam for example and it actually contained more fruit than the expensive brands.
Like with all generic brands try them out and read the labels and don't be like an osterich and stick your head in the sand and claim them all as rubish
FOR A HARD EARNED THIRST THERE IS NOTHING LIKE A GOOD HOME BREW...
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Guest
Hi
I agree with trying Homebrand I have and do and your right sometimes there's a product that is a bargain for you. ie jam with a realy high fruit ratio, that probably is the lumpy bits the premium brands reject, but if that's your thing you have a bargain. Chances are though, it will vary from batch to batch and for beer that's just not worth it.
Hunter Valley has heaps of Wineries, but for the average player it's cheaper to buy at Wollies. A cellar door special at say $10, could be normal price $8 at the supermarket.
Regards
Rob
I agree with trying Homebrand I have and do and your right sometimes there's a product that is a bargain for you. ie jam with a realy high fruit ratio, that probably is the lumpy bits the premium brands reject, but if that's your thing you have a bargain. Chances are though, it will vary from batch to batch and for beer that's just not worth it.
Hunter Valley has heaps of Wineries, but for the average player it's cheaper to buy at Wollies. A cellar door special at say $10, could be normal price $8 at the supermarket.
Regards
Rob
I think DB is right in that it is much easier to speculate and write homebrand products off (although I don't think that was the point he was making). When it comes to brewing a beer that is going to take me about an hour to do, not to mention take up valuable real estate in the fermenter 
, I'd rather outlay an extra $10 and know what I'm using is going to be right.
I mean it's only an hour of my time but if I spent that hour at work instead it would be worth alot more than $10 to me. That said, I'm all for anyone else brewing up a homebrand and telling me how it went. Just not my cup-o-tea.
, I'd rather outlay an extra $10 and know what I'm using is going to be right.I mean it's only an hour of my time but if I spent that hour at work instead it would be worth alot more than $10 to me. That said, I'm all for anyone else brewing up a homebrand and telling me how it went. Just not my cup-o-tea.
Evo - Part Man, Part Ale