Do people bottle and do secondary fermentation in the bottle or transfer to another container and do it there...
I am a little confused as I though secondary is where the beer carbonates... But many seem to refer to doing a secondary in a bulk container and then bottling..
What is the purpose of bulk secondary?
How do you do your secondary?
How do you do your secondary?
Fermenting: Responsibly American Brown (Drink Responsibly) My first AG!
Bottled: Fuggles Larger/ale, Honey I'm Home Ale, Entropy Wheat, Dark Matter Ale, The Beer that Should Not Be (IPA)
Bottled: Fuggles Larger/ale, Honey I'm Home Ale, Entropy Wheat, Dark Matter Ale, The Beer that Should Not Be (IPA)
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Aussie Claret
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Thursday Sep 01, 2005 11:55 am
- Location: Gold Coast
Hi MHD,
Terminology can be a bit misleading at the start, you'll get the hang of it, but to answer your question.
Racking to secondary, means tranferring the beer to another container where initial fermentation usually finishes, it allows the beer to clear better prior to bottling. It also removes the beer off the yeast cake in the primary, which if it were left long enough in primary could produce off flavours.
Bottle conditioning, is where the beer gets carbonated, after adding some type of sugar. Yes a mini secondary fermentation takes place where co2 is produced during this fermentation and is absorbed into the beer.
Hope this helps.
AC
Terminology can be a bit misleading at the start, you'll get the hang of it, but to answer your question.
Racking to secondary, means tranferring the beer to another container where initial fermentation usually finishes, it allows the beer to clear better prior to bottling. It also removes the beer off the yeast cake in the primary, which if it were left long enough in primary could produce off flavours.
Bottle conditioning, is where the beer gets carbonated, after adding some type of sugar. Yes a mini secondary fermentation takes place where co2 is produced during this fermentation and is absorbed into the beer.
Hope this helps.
AC
I do MHD, but its not a necessary step. As a begginer, maybe get some confidence in the basics first. And just bottle your beer after it has fermented in your primary fermenter.
When youve got some good brews under your belt, then think about getting yourself a secondary vessel....Just my humble opinion.
The main reason i now rack ( just started doing it after years of brewing )...is to reduce the sediment, and so i can leave my beer longer. As i am time retarded......i dont have to leave my brew sitting on the primary yeast cake for a long time.
When youve got some good brews under your belt, then think about getting yourself a secondary vessel....Just my humble opinion.
The main reason i now rack ( just started doing it after years of brewing )...is to reduce the sediment, and so i can leave my beer longer. As i am time retarded......i dont have to leave my brew sitting on the primary yeast cake for a long time.
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Dogger Dan
- Posts: 3168
- Joined: Thursday Aug 26, 2004 10:43 am
- Location: Lucan, Ontario, Canada
I'll disagree with Paleman just cause I can 
If you can do it you should transfer into a secondary. Mine are all glass but they are way cheaper for me to purchase than what you guys have to caugh up.
Nevertheless, I will stand by getting it off that yeast bed and allow it to finish in a secondary. The practice isn't hard and really can be done by anyone.
If you can do it you should transfer into a secondary. Mine are all glass but they are way cheaper for me to purchase than what you guys have to caugh up.
Nevertheless, I will stand by getting it off that yeast bed and allow it to finish in a secondary. The practice isn't hard and really can be done by anyone.
"Listening to someone who brews their own beer is like listening to a religous fanatic talk about the day he saw the light" Ross Murray, Montreal Gazette
I totally agree with what your saying Dogger. As i'll always rack for now, and ever. And i think MHD should too, but you have to learn to crawl before you wlk. And i still made fantastic brews without racking.
My thoughts were though, as a begginer, that has one brew under his belt, just to get around the basics first, without having to worry about buying a second vessel, the methods involved ( although not hard ) e.g. making sure you rack without causing disturbance into the secondary, ect..ect.
But as ive mentioned, theres some fantastic advice on this site, a lot of it comes from the Dogger himself. Whatever advice any brewer takes, should put them on the right track.
My thoughts were though, as a begginer, that has one brew under his belt, just to get around the basics first, without having to worry about buying a second vessel, the methods involved ( although not hard ) e.g. making sure you rack without causing disturbance into the secondary, ect..ect.
But as ive mentioned, theres some fantastic advice on this site, a lot of it comes from the Dogger himself. Whatever advice any brewer takes, should put them on the right track.
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Tyberious Funk
- Posts: 233
- Joined: Thursday Jul 07, 2005 10:40 am
- Location: Melbourne
So what kind of container do people use?
Another fermenter?
Or will a large bucket do (I guess the problem there is syphoning from the bucket to bottles...)
And have people had infection in the secondary? What is the risk?
Another fermenter?
Or will a large bucket do (I guess the problem there is syphoning from the bucket to bottles...)
And have people had infection in the secondary? What is the risk?
Fermenting: Responsibly American Brown (Drink Responsibly) My first AG!
Bottled: Fuggles Larger/ale, Honey I'm Home Ale, Entropy Wheat, Dark Matter Ale, The Beer that Should Not Be (IPA)
Bottled: Fuggles Larger/ale, Honey I'm Home Ale, Entropy Wheat, Dark Matter Ale, The Beer that Should Not Be (IPA)
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Aussie Claret
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Thursday Sep 01, 2005 11:55 am
- Location: Gold Coast
MHD,
If you stick with Doggers advice you won't go wrong. If this is your first brew, I'd try and keep it simple and allow fermentation to finish, then just bottle.
Racking to a secondary is easy all you need is a plastic food grade hose, (Your fermenter probably has a tap) hope so, then connect the hose to the tap and coil the hose length up into the bottom your secondary vessel, to prevent too mush splashing around which is undesireable because you don't want to oxygenate your beer.
If you don't have one most come with one, get a sediment reducer (it fits to the tap on the inside of the fermenter obviously you need to put it on the tap before you start put anything in the fermenter), (some people disagree with using them) but I have one and it helps prevent tranferring too much sediment. The secondary can be a jerry can, or cube or other fermenter, so long as you can close to prevent possible infections you should be sweet. I use another fermenter with airlock.
Last tip when you open the tap up and you are tranferring the beer (racking) pinch the plastic hose a little bit then release which will help fill the hose with beer and not air, again reducing possible oxidation of the beer.
Ok Very last tip make sure everything is santised, clean, clean, clean.
If you are after another fermenter try Bunnings hardware stores they have 25l water containers with rub seals, screw on lids and you can get a screw in tap. 25l containers ~$18 tap ~$1.50, much cheaper than the HBS.
Cheers
AC
If you stick with Doggers advice you won't go wrong. If this is your first brew, I'd try and keep it simple and allow fermentation to finish, then just bottle.
Racking to a secondary is easy all you need is a plastic food grade hose, (Your fermenter probably has a tap) hope so, then connect the hose to the tap and coil the hose length up into the bottom your secondary vessel, to prevent too mush splashing around which is undesireable because you don't want to oxygenate your beer.
If you don't have one most come with one, get a sediment reducer (it fits to the tap on the inside of the fermenter obviously you need to put it on the tap before you start put anything in the fermenter), (some people disagree with using them) but I have one and it helps prevent tranferring too much sediment. The secondary can be a jerry can, or cube or other fermenter, so long as you can close to prevent possible infections you should be sweet. I use another fermenter with airlock.
Last tip when you open the tap up and you are tranferring the beer (racking) pinch the plastic hose a little bit then release which will help fill the hose with beer and not air, again reducing possible oxidation of the beer.
Ok Very last tip make sure everything is santised, clean, clean, clean.
If you are after another fermenter try Bunnings hardware stores they have 25l water containers with rub seals, screw on lids and you can get a screw in tap. 25l containers ~$18 tap ~$1.50, much cheaper than the HBS.
Cheers
AC
Interesting read..
i do actually secondary ferment.. but i dont use an airlock.. i just screw the lid on..
One problem i have found is the container pressurises due to the extra fermentation.. to get around this i have been cracking the lid and expelling the gas, ensuring i reseal while the gas is leaving the vessel.. ie dont let the gas completely escape and risk contamination.
Would this be ok?
i do actually secondary ferment.. but i dont use an airlock.. i just screw the lid on..
One problem i have found is the container pressurises due to the extra fermentation.. to get around this i have been cracking the lid and expelling the gas, ensuring i reseal while the gas is leaving the vessel.. ie dont let the gas completely escape and risk contamination.
Would this be ok?
MMMMMM... Beer
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undercover1
- Posts: 462
- Joined: Friday Jun 03, 2005 10:28 am
- Location: Melbourne
MHD,
Properly speaking, secondary fermentation is the process whereby the fermenting wort (ie brew with yeast in it) is taken from it's initial container into another container after about a week (or when a set SG is reached) , leaving behind the dead yeast, (mouse turds, bits of fluff etc) that have sunk to the bottom of that first container on the bottom of the first container.
This gives a clearer final product, (leaves the mouse turds etc mentioned earlier out of the finished beer) and also allows an opportunity to add some hops or other flavors - fruit syrups for instance- to the later, secondary part of fermentation only.
Yes, you need another keg or fermenter, but it's a very simple process of attaching a hose to one full fermenter and gently running the brew into another empty one.
The fermenting that takes place in the bottle is usually called "bottle conditioning", even though it may take place immediately after "primary fermentation".
Phew.
Properly speaking, secondary fermentation is the process whereby the fermenting wort (ie brew with yeast in it) is taken from it's initial container into another container after about a week (or when a set SG is reached) , leaving behind the dead yeast, (mouse turds, bits of fluff etc) that have sunk to the bottom of that first container on the bottom of the first container.
This gives a clearer final product, (leaves the mouse turds etc mentioned earlier out of the finished beer) and also allows an opportunity to add some hops or other flavors - fruit syrups for instance- to the later, secondary part of fermentation only.
Yes, you need another keg or fermenter, but it's a very simple process of attaching a hose to one full fermenter and gently running the brew into another empty one.
The fermenting that takes place in the bottle is usually called "bottle conditioning", even though it may take place immediately after "primary fermentation".
Phew.
Salut!
So apart from the ability to add more ingredients the primary reason is to allow sediment to precipitate without the beer sitting on the sediment?
Does much fermentation actually take place during secondary?
(edited to remove (some of the) stupidity)
Does much fermentation actually take place during secondary?
(edited to remove (some of the) stupidity)
Fermenting: Responsibly American Brown (Drink Responsibly) My first AG!
Bottled: Fuggles Larger/ale, Honey I'm Home Ale, Entropy Wheat, Dark Matter Ale, The Beer that Should Not Be (IPA)
Bottled: Fuggles Larger/ale, Honey I'm Home Ale, Entropy Wheat, Dark Matter Ale, The Beer that Should Not Be (IPA)
Hello fellow hopheads. Thanks for all your great advice while I've been surfing this site. This is my first post and thought I should jump in here with a few questions.
Having followed the advice of some learned contributors I hustled myself of to Big W where I got something from the the good people at Willow that looks a lot like my fermenter but only cost $26.
I was all set to experiment with racking off my brew for the first time and maybe have a go at bulk priming. But two posts keep nagging. One said that even after racking the brew can throw a bit of sediment; the other that bulk priming requires a third vessel containg the priming sugar (in solution) into which the brew is added before bottling.
I presume that priming should be done as close to bottling as possible and that the priming sugar should be stirred through. Does bulk priming stir up sediment thrown from the end of fermentation (if there is any?)? Do I really have to fight my way through the christmas hoardes at Big W for another Willow?
Regards.
Cheeno
Having followed the advice of some learned contributors I hustled myself of to Big W where I got something from the the good people at Willow that looks a lot like my fermenter but only cost $26.
I was all set to experiment with racking off my brew for the first time and maybe have a go at bulk priming. But two posts keep nagging. One said that even after racking the brew can throw a bit of sediment; the other that bulk priming requires a third vessel containg the priming sugar (in solution) into which the brew is added before bottling.
I presume that priming should be done as close to bottling as possible and that the priming sugar should be stirred through. Does bulk priming stir up sediment thrown from the end of fermentation (if there is any?)? Do I really have to fight my way through the christmas hoardes at Big W for another Willow?
Regards.
Cheeno
'cause I love that dirty water!
Bulk Priming is another step after racking, that must be done carefully and accurately.
Its a method that incorporates the fermentables.......into the secondary vessel, after racking and cold conditioning.....then ready to keg or bottle.
As far as bottling goes......priming means you measure the correct amount of fermentables and add it to your secondary vessel,......then bottle. without having to prime your bottles, because you have already done so in your secondary vessel. As for kegging, i dont know, never done it.
Hope this isnt confusing.........begginers to homebrewing should disregard all this bullshit....thats my firm stance !!!!!
Its a method that incorporates the fermentables.......into the secondary vessel, after racking and cold conditioning.....then ready to keg or bottle.
As far as bottling goes......priming means you measure the correct amount of fermentables and add it to your secondary vessel,......then bottle. without having to prime your bottles, because you have already done so in your secondary vessel. As for kegging, i dont know, never done it.
Hope this isnt confusing.........begginers to homebrewing should disregard all this bullshit....thats my firm stance !!!!!
My local hb dude errs on the side of caution here. He reckons you may lose to much live yeast to bottle carbonate.Paleman wrote:Bulk Priming is another step after racking, that must be done carefully and accurately.
Do you guys think this is to do with the time the brew is racked / left in the bulk primer before bottling ??
How long is your brew usually racked ?
I read that some just go straight from primary to bulk priming....
Cheers
501
Cheeno,
To keep it simple for you, you can rack from your fermenter to your Willow, then when secondary is completed, rack back to the fermenter for bulk priming and bottling.
You don't need a third container, unless you are brewing a second batch in your fermenter straight after racking to the Willow.
Or just prime each bottle with a $1.95 sugar measurer from Big W. (little side - little bottles, big side - big bottles)
Hope this helps.
To keep it simple for you, you can rack from your fermenter to your Willow, then when secondary is completed, rack back to the fermenter for bulk priming and bottling.
You don't need a third container, unless you are brewing a second batch in your fermenter straight after racking to the Willow.
Or just prime each bottle with a $1.95 sugar measurer from Big W. (little side - little bottles, big side - big bottles)
Hope this helps.
Jeffro
All I need is a cold beer, a kind word, and unquestioned world domination.
All I need is a cold beer, a kind word, and unquestioned world domination.
General,
Thanks for your advice and thank you for keeping it simple for me. It's as if you've known me for years.
The reason I bought the willow WAS to get another brew on the go while one finished off. Either racking or priming will have to go from my beer making regimen. To do both sounds like too much sanitising, too much water and too much mucking around.
Thanks for your advice and thank you for keeping it simple for me. It's as if you've known me for years.
The reason I bought the willow WAS to get another brew on the go while one finished off. Either racking or priming will have to go from my beer making regimen. To do both sounds like too much sanitising, too much water and too much mucking around.
'cause I love that dirty water!
Cheeno,
Sorry about the "keeping it simple" I didn't mean you were simple or anything (I work for Optus, and it's the latest catch phrase, hard to break the mindset)
How do you sanitise? My sanitising regime takes all of 20 minutes, and 1 litre of water.
Priming in the bottle makes it a little easier as bulk priming means you need to calculate wort volume, and add enough sugar solution to prime the lot, whereas bottle priming means about a teaspoon of sugar per stubbie (don't yell at me for saying that, I know it is an exact science).
I have racked only once, and the results mean that I'll be doing it forever more.
My advice, rack to secondary, then set the new brew in the fermenter, and bottle prime. (means no need to bulk prime, and secondary only takes about a week, same as primary)
Theoretically, you can be laying down a new brew, bottling, and racking each weekend, with an output of about 2 1/2 slabs a week, hope you have a few bottles, or drink really quickly.
I could go on, but won't.
Sorry about the "keeping it simple" I didn't mean you were simple or anything (I work for Optus, and it's the latest catch phrase, hard to break the mindset)
How do you sanitise? My sanitising regime takes all of 20 minutes, and 1 litre of water.
Priming in the bottle makes it a little easier as bulk priming means you need to calculate wort volume, and add enough sugar solution to prime the lot, whereas bottle priming means about a teaspoon of sugar per stubbie (don't yell at me for saying that, I know it is an exact science).
I have racked only once, and the results mean that I'll be doing it forever more.
My advice, rack to secondary, then set the new brew in the fermenter, and bottle prime. (means no need to bulk prime, and secondary only takes about a week, same as primary)
Theoretically, you can be laying down a new brew, bottling, and racking each weekend, with an output of about 2 1/2 slabs a week, hope you have a few bottles, or drink really quickly.
I could go on, but won't.
Jeffro
All I need is a cold beer, a kind word, and unquestioned world domination.
All I need is a cold beer, a kind word, and unquestioned world domination.
Hi gang. Just a point about racking and secondary conditioning.
I'm a lazy sort of fellow, and I don't like to do too much unnecessary work, but racking made an immediate improvement to my beer. And I don't just mean clearer beer.
The point is that it conditions faster in a fermenter or keg than it does in bottles.
If you cut about 2" off the end of your filler tube, you can then use that short piece to connect your racking hose to your tap.
I'm a lazy sort of fellow, and I don't like to do too much unnecessary work, but racking made an immediate improvement to my beer. And I don't just mean clearer beer.
The point is that it conditions faster in a fermenter or keg than it does in bottles.
If you cut about 2" off the end of your filler tube, you can then use that short piece to connect your racking hose to your tap.