Ok, so I've made three extract recipes, two using beersmith. My problem is the way beersmith calculates the extraction efficiency for a small boil (8L) for a 22L final volume.
The first recipe was an IPA and I was looking for a bitterness of 42 IBU. I mashed 1kg of pale grain along with 150g of crystal malt and used the resulting 6L of liquid plus 0.5kg of dry malt plus extra water up to 8L for my boil. I added the remaining 2.5kg malt extract at the end of the boil. This is exactly how I entered it into beersmith (using the add after boil option for the extract). Anyway according to beersmith my recipe should have yeilded a beer with 42 IBU, having tasted a couple there is very little bitterness, I'm guessing the IBU is around 10 if not lower. Does anyone know why this could happen? Should I put all the extract in at the start and just do a high gravity boil? Sorry I can't post the recipe up at the moment its on the computer at home.
I did an american pale the other day using an 8L boil for a final volume of 12L, looking for around 30 IBU and based on tasting the hydrometer tube, this one will be plenty bitter, so obviously there seems to be an issue with the small boil volume compared to the final volume. ie the accuracy seems to be better when the boil volume is close to the final volume. Has anyone had any similar experiences?
Cheers
BK
Problems with Beersmith
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Dogger Dan
- Posts: 3168
- Joined: Thursday Aug 26, 2004 10:43 am
- Location: Lucan, Ontario, Canada
Don't be suprised
It is very difficult to determine IBU with High Gravity Boils. The other couple of points, and maybe you corrected for them.
1. Age of Hop, Hops will oxidize and loose there Bitterness over time. That is tha Alpha Acid, and Beer Smith can correct for that but it is only an estimation. Remember a lot depends on storage
2. Beer Smith has a general Alpha Acid for each hop, you need to have your HBS tell you what the real Alpha Acid is, it comes on the bulk pack provided by the supplier. I have seen 2 point difference in hops between Beer SMith and reality. I get the HDS to write The AA on my pack and change it on Beer Smith.
Dogger
It is very difficult to determine IBU with High Gravity Boils. The other couple of points, and maybe you corrected for them.
1. Age of Hop, Hops will oxidize and loose there Bitterness over time. That is tha Alpha Acid, and Beer Smith can correct for that but it is only an estimation. Remember a lot depends on storage
2. Beer Smith has a general Alpha Acid for each hop, you need to have your HBS tell you what the real Alpha Acid is, it comes on the bulk pack provided by the supplier. I have seen 2 point difference in hops between Beer SMith and reality. I get the HDS to write The AA on my pack and change it on Beer Smith.
Dogger
"Listening to someone who brews their own beer is like listening to a religous fanatic talk about the day he saw the light" Ross Murray, Montreal Gazette
Thanks Dogger. You may have a point on the hops. I did adjust beersmith for the AA% written on the side of the bag of hops, but they were of an unknown age and the HBS I got them from don't keep them in a fridge so chances are that they had lost some bitterness.
I don't really have the option of getting a larger boiler yet so I think I might go down the road of doing a small mash (1kg) and adding this plus some extra DME to a coopers kit. This way I'm hoping that the kit will provide the bitterness and I can still adjust the hop profile and any specialty grains to my taste. Should be cheaper too - anyone tried buying all the ingredients for an extract brew? I paid approx $50 for my disasterous IPA.
Cheers
BK
I don't really have the option of getting a larger boiler yet so I think I might go down the road of doing a small mash (1kg) and adding this plus some extra DME to a coopers kit. This way I'm hoping that the kit will provide the bitterness and I can still adjust the hop profile and any specialty grains to my taste. Should be cheaper too - anyone tried buying all the ingredients for an extract brew? I paid approx $50 for my disasterous IPA.
Cheers
BK
BK, as dogger has said high gravity boils can be harder to estimate the IBU's on.. but you should be able to get closer than a diff of 30ibu IMO
for starters i'd try adding all extract (dry & liquid) post boil. the lower the gravity of the boil, the better IMO.. helps with better bitterness extraction & helps keep the colour in check.
just a couple of q's for you -
what did you have the brewhouse efficency set to?
& was there much difference between the estimate OG & the actual OG measurement?
did you take a gravity reading on your boil?
& what's method of IBU calculation (rager, tinseth etc) did you have beersmith set to?
stupid questions i know but did you set your boil volume or let BS calculate it for you?
& with the 22litre batch did you split the extract into 2 lots - the 500g in the boil + the remainder post boil?
post your recipe (or email me the bsm file) & i'll see if i can help you out..
Cheers db
for starters i'd try adding all extract (dry & liquid) post boil. the lower the gravity of the boil, the better IMO.. helps with better bitterness extraction & helps keep the colour in check.
just a couple of q's for you -
what did you have the brewhouse efficency set to?
& was there much difference between the estimate OG & the actual OG measurement?
did you take a gravity reading on your boil?
& what's method of IBU calculation (rager, tinseth etc) did you have beersmith set to?
stupid questions i know but did you set your boil volume or let BS calculate it for you?
& with the 22litre batch did you split the extract into 2 lots - the 500g in the boil + the remainder post boil?
post your recipe (or email me the bsm file) & i'll see if i can help you out..
Cheers db
db,
I set the brewhouse efficiency at 65%. Beersmith estimated OG at 1.068 and I measured 1.062, so pretty close to the mark.
I didn't think to take any gravity reading on the boil but I calculated for my 65% efficiency on the mash and 0.5kg it would be around 1.050.
The hop bitterness was set to the default of tinseth and I set the boil volume myself to 8L. I added the remaining extract at the end of the boil.
Anyway here is an early prototype of my recipe - in the end I actually added more hops than this (at 60 min) though they were hersbrucker with low AA so it shouldn't be too far off.
2.50 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 54.3 % (end of boil)
0.50 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 10.9 %
1.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 21.7 %
0.10 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (19.7 EBC) Grain 2.2 %
30.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (60 min) Hops 26.8 IBU
20.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (30 min) Hops 13.7 IBU
60.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00%] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
0.50 kg Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 EBC) Sugar 10.9 % (end of boil)
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale
Cheers
BK
I set the brewhouse efficiency at 65%. Beersmith estimated OG at 1.068 and I measured 1.062, so pretty close to the mark.
I didn't think to take any gravity reading on the boil but I calculated for my 65% efficiency on the mash and 0.5kg it would be around 1.050.
The hop bitterness was set to the default of tinseth and I set the boil volume myself to 8L. I added the remaining extract at the end of the boil.
Anyway here is an early prototype of my recipe - in the end I actually added more hops than this (at 60 min) though they were hersbrucker with low AA so it shouldn't be too far off.
2.50 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 54.3 % (end of boil)
0.50 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 10.9 %
1.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 21.7 %
0.10 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (19.7 EBC) Grain 2.2 %
30.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (60 min) Hops 26.8 IBU
20.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (30 min) Hops 13.7 IBU
60.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00%] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
0.50 kg Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 EBC) Sugar 10.9 % (end of boil)
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale
Cheers
BK
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beermeister
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Thursday Oct 07, 2004 6:40 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
db,
thanks for confirming that my recipe was ok. I just wrote a long winded reply, but somehow lost it. Anyway the gist of it was that I reckon it can probably be put down to old hops (may have been on the shelf a while), mislabled hops or maybe a quirk in beersmith.
I just took a hydrometer reading on my american pale I put on the other day. Magnificent tasting already!
Cheers
BK
thanks for confirming that my recipe was ok. I just wrote a long winded reply, but somehow lost it. Anyway the gist of it was that I reckon it can probably be put down to old hops (may have been on the shelf a while), mislabled hops or maybe a quirk in beersmith.
I just took a hydrometer reading on my american pale I put on the other day. Magnificent tasting already!
Cheers
BK
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Dogger Dan
- Posts: 3168
- Joined: Thursday Aug 26, 2004 10:43 am
- Location: Lucan, Ontario, Canada
I don't often like to blame materials but in this case I think the blame lies there. Some days you have to use what you can get your mits on
Dogger
Dogger
"Listening to someone who brews their own beer is like listening to a religous fanatic talk about the day he saw the light" Ross Murray, Montreal Gazette