Wals Pilsner Recipes

[lethaldog]

Well i got myself a 40 litre pot and im ready to try my first AG

I am going to do gregs first up as a trial cos hes already got the measurements down pat for me but as a second i was looking at maybe doing this ( see if you can guess that i love my pillys)

4kg pilsner malt
250gm munich malt
250gm crystal malt ( am considering carapils instead so feedback plz)

60gm saaz ( 60 mins)
30gm saaz (30 mins)
30gm saaz ( 15 mins)
20gm saaz (at flame out)
Wyeast czech pilsner yeast.
Final volume 22-23 litres

So what do you think guys, i need all the advice i can get but from what i have read on here im thinking it should be ok

[gregb]

Recipie looks great Lethal.
I personally would switch the crystal for carapils but that is just me.

What sparge method are you going for?

Cheers,
Greg

[ACTbrewer]

What's your initial boil volume going to be?
Grain bill and hops look (although I would add even more hops, IBU for style are 25.0-45.0 IBU, yours is about 25.....but you can always add more next time).
Go the Munich malt.

[lethaldog]

Recipie looks great Lethal.
I personally would switch the crystal for carapils but that is just me.

What sparge method are you going for?

Cheers,
Greg

Im just taking it as it comes greg but what i was looking at is mashing in a 40 litre esky that i have lying around then i was going to transfer into an old coopers pail that i have ( im going to make some sort of grate/filter for the tap) and use this as my tun and sparge through this.
Like i said though i need all the advice i can get and any suggestions put on the table will be greatly appreciated, i think im jumping in both feet in the deepend but that is kind of my character Im not scared to fail so if this doesnt work then ill keep trying and researching till i get it right Was going to start with about 12-14 litres in the esky, i figuered this would allow for adding a little extra if the temp drops to much then sparge the remainder of the total say 6-7 litres and boil the lot in my 40 litre pot adding hops at intervals, ACT what would be your suggestion for hops at this volume? oh and would you guys still steep the carapils or crystal on there own and add later or just throw in with the mash? also planned on using the munich and was tossing up between carapils and crystal but i wrote it in the wrong spot, think im with you on that one greg and ill probably go the carapils in the final recipe.
Cheers
Leigh

[Ed]

Lethal, everything goes in the mash, and if it's going to be a pils, the Munich will make it darker than Vienna would. So just a suggestion to substitute there. Munich is 8' whereas Vienna is 3'. Pils should be light. The Weyermann Carapils we get is not true Carapils like in the US, it's a crystal malt of around 2', and will be fine to use.

You'll want to dough in with a ratio somewhere in the range 2.5 litres to 1 kg of grain. So that would be just over 11 litres mash water. Dump some very hot water in the esky from the kettle first to pre-heat it, then dump it out. I would think your mash water will need to be heated to around 80C, this will adjust itself back down into saccrification range when it hits the grain and will probably settle in the mid 60's.

The grain will hold about 4.5 litres of water and this won't be retrievable, it will stay in the grain. So out of 11 litres, you will end up with 6.5. You will need a boil volume of around 28 to 29 litres so you want to sparge with a total of around 22.5 litres. Remember you will loose around 15% from evaporation due to boil.

Work on something like this:
Dough in with 11 litres @ 80C
Sparge with 22.5 litres @ 75 to 80C

That will give you somewhere around a total of 28 litres collectable (allowing for some dead space in the tun). You will loose somewhere around 4 litres in the 60 min boil, which leaves 24 litres. You will also loose about 1 litre to trub, thereby hitting your target of 23 litres.

Try to make a manifold for the tun, you'll need something reasonable.

Hop shedule looks great. With the efficiency, you'll probably be very lucky if you end up at 60 to 70% on your first go. Bear that in mind when thinking about total IBU's, because you could end up with something too bitter otherwise.

Best of luck with it.

Cheers, Ed

Edit: take plenty of notes on volumes used/collected and on temperatures hit etc. The notes will serve you well for future reference.

[lethaldog]

cheers ed that certainly helps alot mate, as i said i am jumping in both feet but im also keen to learn and that info has certainly opened my eyes alot, when you speak of a manifold what do you mean by this?
Im planning to do this about the end of this week so ill try to soak up all the info i can before then

Thanks again
Leigh

[Ed]

Have a look at what Yardy posted here. There are some pics as well.
http://www.homebrewandbeer.com/forum/vi ... t=manifold

I just use a single piece of slotted copper pipe which works perfectly well.

How are you planning to cool the wort?

Cheers, Ed

[lethaldog]

Cheers again for that Ed, im starting to change my ideas from what they were a few posts ago and that system looks fairly easy to make, your slotted copper pipe, is this just say slotted with a hacksaw or does it need more of a gap than this and im guessing that there is no transfering needed, meaning you just mash in the esky ( or whatever you use) and once its done just turn the tap on and drain and sparge into the pot and onto the heat/boil, Is all this equipment like hoses, copper and tap all available from the local hardware or would i need to go to a plumbing supplier?, i think i have a spare bung so thats not an issue Oh and on the cooling i was going to go for a bath full of ice at this stage as i dont have any high tech equipment for this as yet, will this work ok?

Cheers
Leigh

[Dogger Dan]

Yeh it should work fine lethal, Ed was a master at that technique, although I never really agreed with it because you don't get the protein break from a rapid cool. As it turns out, it doesn't seem to matter for you guys as for whatever reason you don't get the protein I do in my wort.

I have some pics I can put up which will help you along your way as well. Believe me, this is not hard. If I might suggest, a couple of good thermometers won't go amiss, and a timer. I will get the pics up later today

Oh, by the way, that is a lot of hops going in there, I would hate for you to clog your syphon. We can tal;k about that later, a copper scrubie can help here.

Dogger

[Ed]

Yes, it's easiest to do it all in the esky. Mine is cylindrical but I won't go into why now.

What I use is very basic but very efficient. I have a reluctance to spend any more than needed

My copper pipe is just slotted with a hacksaw, and I have those slots facing up. Some insist they need to face down to avoid a stuck sparge, but have never had a problem with this. Here's an image
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0347.jpg

And I don't use a tap, just some hose with a bulldog clip
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0348.jpg

I think you'll be wasting your time trying to cool that volume in a bath of ice. It will take hours upon hours. Like Dogger says, I was cooling in a similar fashion, but it was in 2 smaller pots, not 1 big one. I got 10 metres of 1/2 inch annealed copper pipe and bent it to shape for an immersion chiller. It's expensive stuff now. $9.00 per metre
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0356.jpg

There are other types of chillers, but I went with Doggers suggestion and decided on the immersion. Another method is to not chill at all. It's called, surprise, surprise, the "no-chill method" With this method, you get a cube with lid from the hardware. The idea is to fill the cube until it is almost full with the hot wort. You then squeeze out the remaining air and put the lid on. Leave it sit overnight or longer, and then rack the then cooled wort off the trub and into the fermenter. For various reasons I don't think it's the best idea, but users of this method swear by it.

Here is a couple of pics of my set up in action. Like I say it's not anything fancy but works well.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0388.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0392.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0397.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0399.jpg

If you get the opportunity to see an all grain brew in action before attempting the first one, it's a great help.

Cheers, Ed

[Ed]

Actually, I've been thinking about what Dogger said. You might be able to cool it as planned.

Water is a poor conductor of heat so you'll need to keep it moving around the outside of the pot. Also, whirlpool the wort with a spoon to keep it moving too. This combined will work as a heat exchanger, but will take some time. I did a similar thing when boiling in 2 smaller pots. The thing that worries me is shifting a big pot around with boiling wort in it.

When it's cooled, leave it sit for another 1/2 hr or so with the lid on. This will settle out the debris.

Cheers, Ed

[rwh]

Hey Lethal, where'd you get your pot? I've been going in to HBSes and Asian Groceries trying to find one for reasonably cheap but no luck yet. $200 is a bit above my budget!

[gregb]

Rwh, I couldn't pass up a 42qt (about 40 odd litres) aluminium pot the other week. It was in a disposal/camping/outdoors shop. Just another spot to check if the Asian Grocery shops aren't stocking them.

He offered me a 100qt pot at a good price, but I just don't drink enough for a system that big.

Cheers,
Greg

[lethaldog]

Yes, it's easiest to do it all in the esky. Mine is cylindrical but I won't go into why now.

What I use is very basic but very efficient. I have a reluctance to spend any more than needed

My copper pipe is just slotted with a hacksaw, and I have those slots facing up. Some insist they need to face down to avoid a stuck sparge, but have never had a problem with this. Here's an image
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0347.jpg

And I don't use a tap, just some hose with a bulldog clip
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0348.jpg

I think you'll be wasting your time trying to cool that volume in a bath of ice. It will take hours upon hours. Like Dogger says, I was cooling in a similar fashion, but it was in 2 smaller pots, not 1 big one. I got 10 metres of 1/2 inch annealed copper pipe and bent it to shape for an immersion chiller. It's expensive stuff now. $9.00 per metre
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0356.jpg

There are other types of chillers, but I went with Doggers suggestion and decided on the immersion. Another method is to not chill at all. It's called, surprise, surprise, the "no-chill method" With this method, you get a cube with lid from the hardware. The idea is to fill the cube until it is almost full with the hot wort. You then squeeze out the remaining air and put the lid on. Leave it sit overnight or longer, and then rack the then cooled wort off the trub and into the fermenter. For various reasons I don't think it's the best idea, but users of this method swear by it.

Here is a couple of pics of my set up in action. Like I say it's not anything fancy but works well.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0388.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0392.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0397.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/ ... 2_0399.jpg

If you get the opportunity to see an all grain brew in action before attempting the first one, it's a great help.

Cheers, Ed

Cheers Ed that manifold is exactly the way i had pictured it and the system looks great i reckon, my esky is square being about the only difference to the way i will setup and the fact that my brother in law is a plumber could be a real benefit with the copper, i might have to make an immersion chiller to if i can get enough of it in the next week, im guessing that its just cold tap water running through this, how long does it take to chill with this method? also thanks for the pics as im am deffinately getting a much better understanding of the process now and i should be fine i think, i guess its like most things, daunting untill you actually do it then its second nature. Also is the risk of infection low with using the immersion or do you cover somehow when you do this?


rwh
I got my pot from the One Stop Bar shop in mornington and it is 40 litre ally and cost me $105 which is a pretty good buy i think and i think it was on special so i could arrange to pick it up for you if you cant get down for a bit if you want

[lethaldog]

Well i have spoken to the brother in law and he can get me 1/2 inch at about $4.50 a metre so have decided on making the chiller, for peace of mind its pretty cheap, I know that there has been a barrage of questions but did you use the same size copper for the manifold or was it bigger?

[Ed]

That's a great price on the copper Lethal, because I spoke to a scrap metal merchant who's getting $6.00 a metre, so you're laughing there. Yes, same size pipe in the manifold. I don't know if it's necessary, but some make quite elaborate manifolds for the rectangular eskys. It's to do with the water channeling, but I have heard it doesn't occur in the homebrewers situation.

It is just tap water running through the chiller. The chiller goes into the boil about 20 minutes before the end to sanitise it. Be careful, if there's any water trapped in the pipes, it spews out quickly.

Takes me around 30 minutes to do the chill and I use around 50 litres to acheive this. It is variable. I know some brewers who can get a quicker chill but they'll have the tap on full pelt, wasting 100's of litres. I also have the lid off when chilling so I can keep the wort moving. It definately aids in the cooling. And yes there is always the risk of infection with the lid off, but haven't had a problem yet. It would be more of a concern if brewing outside. I've been thinking about incorporating a stirrer into the lid so it can remain on for the entire chill.

After the chill, I remove the chiller, stick the lid on, and leave it to settle for around 15 minutes or so before transferring to the fermenter.

Cheers, Ed

[lethaldog]

Yet another question Ed
When you transfer how do you do this? with a syphon hose?

Thanks again for all the help, and this goes for everyone who has replied, i know this started out as a thread for a wals pilsner recipe and has gradually turned into an AG tuition thread but hey Shite happens right.
The information that i have gathered has been priceless and i greatly appreciate it, im almost confident that i can get this right now but keep posting any info as i know there is still much to learn

[Ed]

Yep, siphon until it's easy to handle, then I lift the pot and pour. Would be easier to get a tap fitted. When you siphon, stick the hose in until almost completely immersed, stick your thumb over the end, lower it to the fermenter, and let it go.

You also have to figure out if you will be batch sparging or fly sparging. Have you got a big burner for the boil?

Cheers, Ed

[lethaldog]

I was gonna sparge through the tun, i guess this is what you call batch sparging?? I have a burner that i think will do the job and ill give it a go this time around, if its not as good as it should be then ill just go out and get a better one for next batch but i think it should be ok, if i have to spend some extra dollars then this is not a major concern as im not sure but a grouse burner from what i can tell would set me back between $100 and $150 which is not to over the top! I realise that there will be a little trial and error, hopefully not to much of the latter Just to add i just had a look at the grain and grape site and they have four ring burners with hose and reg for $109, does that sound reasonable??
Cheers
Leigh

[damonpeyo]

Hey Lethal, where'd you get your pot? I've been going in to HBSes and Asian Groceries trying to find one for reasonably cheap but no luck yet. $200 is a bit above my budget!

I am chef by trade, they don't come cheap, try look up the ebay or kitchenware suppliers.