sugars and hops???????????

[Delly]

Hello everyone.

OK I've brewed a few and been relatively satisfied but not startled and amazed. i am only interested in can brewing.

Been using the brew kit sugar in the initial wort, but tried raw or brown sugar instead, couldnt notice any difference and been doing that since.

Now I log on here and my eyes have been opened big time!

Some questions for the experts to answer in lay terms.

1) Is malt ok to substitute instead of sugar totally ie 1kg of sugar out the window and 1 kg of malt in the fermenter?

2)Do I add hops to the can mixture with the hot water or do I boil them and add the boiled mix to the can stuff.

3)is it worth mucking around with different yeast or do I just go for the stuff in the top of the can?

Thanks.

[Evo]

Short answers.

1. Hell yeah !
2. You can do either. If you wanted to boil the hops, boil it with the 1 kg malt.
3. I'd get a few brews under my belt first, then start mucking around with different yeasts.

...and rest assured, you will be startled, you will be amazed. Stick to it.

[Dogger Dan]

1. Yes
2. Either
3. Yes, although you may need to learn how to culture yeast. It will be expensive otherwise

Dogger

[Oliver]

Welcome Delly,

To answer your questions:

1. Definitely try the malt instead of sugar. You'll get a nicer flavor (sugar tends to give cidery tastes to your beer) and you'll get more body, too. Perhaps for a start subsitute 500g malt and 500g glucose or dextrose for the 1kg of sugar.

2. You can do either with the hops. Generally, boiling the hops produces, on balance, more bitterness than aroma. And the more you boil them, the more bitterness you'll get. Just putting the hops in hot water will draw out the aroma and flavour rather than the bitterness. For a start just try 10g or so, either boiled or in with the hot water. 10g should be more than noticeable.

3. Different yeasts are definitely worth experimenting with. However, for now I'd just stick with what comes with the can. Down the track, I'd try some different yeasts, perhaps starting with some dried yeasts such as Saflager and Safale (available from your homebrew store). Saflager in particular is good. It's a true lager yeast, and when used to brew a beer about 12C you'll end up with a really crisp, nice beer. (The Cooper's Bavarian Lager and Cooper's Pilsner come with this yeast anyway.) If you want to be more adventurous, try liquid yeasts, also available from your homebrew shop.

Happy brewing.

Cheers,

Oliver

[BeerKiller]

Evo,Dogger and Oliver,
Would one of you guys mind quickly telling us the diiference between a good dry yeast (i.e. like saflager) as opposed to a liquid yeast. Is it that you can culture it easier ? and or a better taste ?
If a dry yeast is rehydrated and then started is it as good as using a liquid ?
Sorry, I've started thinking ....

[Dogger Dan]

Yeh, I can try if you want

As you know yeast can go into a dorment phase when there is little food for it to eat. Remember "Its alive" So they make the yeast go dormant and then dry it. The problem is, drying is a very harsh process and it often kills yeasts of various strains. The scientific minds got together and developed a strain suitable for drying and whamo, this is what you find in the pack under the lid. It tends to be very generic end of story. This went on for a long time because homebrewing just wasn't popular you sucked it up with what you had (I mean 15 years ago when I started there was SFA really)

Then an outfit called SAF came along and they went along way culturing yeasts that could be dried , hence SAF Lager and SAF Ale. Major step.

Then there are the liquid yeasts and these funky little things are the real stuff. If you are brewing a German Lager, you use a German Lager yeast. I like playing around with them as it gives a different taste profile to your beer no matter what style you use. The long and the short is the liquid yeasts are really variable because they don't need to be dried and since that step is avoided you can have different starins. The downfall is shelf life, It is very short (4 months) and they are a bit fussy to use also. They also cost a few bucks which is why I mentioned culturing to which I have had some success but not great.

So, everyone has told you to use the package, I think you can use any as long as you are willing to pay for it. (A liquid yeast is about 9 bucks so it is a lot to throw on one batch) If I can culture 4 uses out of it I figure I am away.

I am not sure on the value added, that is something you will need to figure out.

Dogger

[BeerKiller]

Thanks mate, looks like I'll have to learn to culture it to make it a cost effective option, but if the old "quality in, quality out" scenario works here then it sounds like it's worth trying out. I'm of to the HBS

[Dogger Dan]

I think I created a monster



Dogger

[Oliver]

BeerKiller,

As an example, the blokes at Cooper's have tried, and failed, to dry the yeast that they use for their ales, meaning they are unable to put them with their cans of homebrew concentrate.

If you want to try a liquid yeast, then a bottle-conditioned beer provides the yeast. Just use the sediment in the bottle to culture up a yeast and use that instead of the yeast supplied with the can of concentrate.

Cooper's Pale Ale, Sparkling Ale, Dark Ale and Best Extra Stout are probably the most popular beers to do this with in Australia, as there's live yeast in each bottle.

For instructions on making a yeast starter, see http://www.homebrewandbeer.com/howtobrew.html

Cheers,

Oliver

[thehipone]

Just something to take note of,

malt will leave you with more residual sweetness than sugar (although the difference may not be too high comparing malt vs. brown sugar) and you will probably want to up the hops to balance, unless youre going for a big malty sweet brew like a bock.

[Guest]

Ta Oliver, looks like I'm going to have to drink a couple of big bottles of Coopers Sparkling tonight, (Bugger )

P.s. Dont feel too bad Dogger you haven't created a monster, you're just encouraging one

[Delly]

Thanks for all the replies guys (until the thread was hijacked )

I will definately try the malt, then maybe next time I will use a little hops to counter the sweetness if its too much.

Thanks especially to people like Oliver and Dan for sharing your wealth of info.

[Dogger Dan]

Thanks,

Some people call that info something else though

Dogger

[wiggins]

I think I created a monster



Dogger

has anyone got any info on csr brewing sugar. im a bit worried it might ruin the flavour of my coopers bitter.

[Ed]

Is that the same one used by Coopers? I think so.
That's all I know. I think many of the serious brewers here might frown upon it and say to use light malt instead. Having said that, I wouldn't say it's going to ruin your beer, just probably won't be as good as it could be.
You can find out a little on Coopers site. http://www.coopers.com.au/homebrew/hbrew.php?pid=7
cheers, Ed

[wiggins]

thanks ed,might use all malt next time, seems to be the go.funny part is , i did a draught with 1000 grams of sucrose and it came out allright,maybe its just one of those brews you cant wreck.

[Ed]

I don't mind the brewing sugar myself, just don't tell anyone
Reckon it's ok for a quaffing beer. Got an experiment ale on the go now with 1kg in it just 'cause I had the sugar laying around and didn't want to waste it.

Cheers, Ed