Blonde beer

[Danzar]

Ok, I'm having a go at my own recipe for a Blonde Beer. I have no idea what I'm doing but you gotta start somewhere.

I'll post my ingredients first before I put this down tomorrow. Welcome your initial thoughts. This is a K & K recipe.

1 can Muntons Blonde Beer
1.5kg Coopers Liquid Wheat Malt extract
150g wheat dry malt
125gram Carapils grain, steeped for 30 minutes
Hallertau hops - 12grams
Muntons gold premium yeast - 6g. This is an ale yeast. I think it's along the lines of the US56.

I've added the dry wheat malt for a bit more head retention.

Views? I was even thinking of adding a just a bit of lime zest.

[Ahutchy]

That all seems about right accept the carapils maybe.

The Muntons yeast from my experience is quite fruity rather than the clean finish of US-56.

If using the Muntons I'd keep the temp under 22c or even lower, unless you want fruitiness?

Have fun, Andrew.

[Danzar]

Thanks for the reply. I want a balanced beer with a bit of fruit. The first Muntons Blonde I did turned out quite fruity but there was little body as I used dextrose/maltodextrine blend. I've added the liquid malt for body and I'm hoping the dried wheat malt will balance out some of the fruit (I could be wrong).

What's your view on:

1. The lime and,
2. The carapils. You mentioned you're not sure on that one?

EDIT - just went and poured me a glass of the first Muntons batch. It is fruity - I used the kit yeast last time. Thinking about it I want some of that flavour but really want to tone it down a bit. I have a US56 in the fridge. I could use that and use the Muntons Gold in another brew.....perhaps I should ditch the Lime come to think of it.

DAN

[Danzar]

Hmmm, thinking about this more (I should given it's my first recipe).

The Muntons Blonde is very fruity (cracked some more of my first batch last night).

To take out some of the fruit I'm thinking on throwing in both 12g of Hallertau and 12g of cluster hops on steep for ten minutes.

Ditch the lime.

Views?

(help me help me help he said)

[Ahutchy]

I'm back!

I wouldn't bother with the lime either.

Nor the carapils.

I would have thought that it would only make it darker and I'm not sure thats what you want for this style.

US56 at 18c will give a very clean profile.

The Muntons yeast at the same temp should give a slightly estery flavour but pretty subtle I think and maybe more what you are after for this style.

Probably a bit more wheat malt wouldn't hurt either, maybe 250g.

Hey I'm no expert but temp and stability of temp and yeast choice will make all the difference to flavour in this style as will a complete lack of bugs so be extra careful with sanitation.

I would use hall not cluster in this recipe. Cluster will be a bit too obvious I think. Maybe a a bit more hall if you want a slightly more obvious hop note which is again probably not right for this style.

Have fun, make the bastard and use this batch as a guide for fine tuning next time.

Andrew.

[Danzar]

Thanks Andrew.

Lime is ditched. Sticking with the Muntons Gold Yeast.

Upping to 250g dried wheat malt.

I've got enough for two batches. I'm going to take your advice and ditch the carapils for the first. Then I'll do a second with the carapils and compare.

The first I'll have to use the cluster only because that's all I have (I have a plenty of Cascade but that will simply make the fruitiness worse).

For the second, I'll pick up some Hall just like you said. I'm really keen to see how this goes now and thanks for helping shape this recipe.

Will post the results.

DAN

[Danzar]

The saga continues. After a string of brewing mishaps, I have the wort incl. fermentables sitting in the fermenter at 32c.

Madly freezing water before I can top up and pitch yeast. What's worse is that the fermenter's already 2/3 full, which leaves me little room to bring the temp down with cold water.

I also burnt the fermentables on the boil.

How long can one feasibly leave the wort sitting in the fermenter (sealed) before pitching the yeast becomes critical?

[Oliver]

How long can one feasibly leave the wort sitting in the fermenter (sealed) before pitching the yeast becomes critical?

Well, that depends. On how well you sanitised. On how long it was open as you filled it. etc, etc.

But the shorter amount of time the better. The longer you leave it, the more the risk of an infection taking hold. But it seems like you may have worked that bit out.

So pitch the yeast ASAP.

Oliver

[Danzar]

How long can one feasibly leave the wort sitting in the fermenter (sealed) before pitching the yeast becomes critical?

Well, that depends. On how well you sanitised. On how long it was open as you filled it. etc, etc.

But the shorter amount of time the better. The longer you leave it, the more the risk of an infection taking hold. But it seems like you may have worked that bit out.

So pitch the yeast ASAP.

Oliver

Thanks Oliver.

We'll, the 'lil yeasties have been munching away so hard, you'd think they were on their last meal.

I had a taste and smell last night and DAMN, no bull, but I think I'm onto something here.

I reversed the order, trying my original recipe first, after which I'll do a batch without the grains and with the Hall hops as suggested by Ahutchy (although I did take your suggestions on increasing the dry wheat malt, ditching the lime and using the Muntons Gold).

It's rich, with a hint of fruit (the hops stripped out the fruit overkill that is inherent with this type of Blonde) but has that easy drinking feel that comes with the Muntons Blonde.

However, I'm getting an impression it's missing something. You know when you cook a meal and there's a fantastic taste lurking just under the surface? Then you add salt and POW! Great meal?

In beer terms, what's the salt?

EDIT: I ended up pitching at 24c, two hours late. Luckily there's no sign of infection at this point.

[///]

the carapils needs to go in a mash - if not steeped at appropriate degradation temps you'll have cloudy beer!

Scotty

[chris.]

the carapils needs to go in a mash - if not steeped at appropriate degradation temps you'll have cloudy beer!

Scotty

I disagree.
Not in all cases does Carapils need to be mashed. I believe it depends on what brand your using & the amount used. 150g in a batch is not going to cause much of an issue IMO.

[///]

Carapils is a malt kilned yes, but still has is a malt used to impart head retention via the enzymic action of a mash. As a former distributer of Weyermann items to Breweries and Homebrew shops and am now a professional brewer, take it on my recomendation to use this in a minimash. I cant see the benefit without the mash as a mash is needed to enact its goodness.

If your looking for an effect similar to Carapils but without the mash, Carahell is the malt to go for. This is a malt produced as per standard crystal malt, aka raised to the enzymic degradation temp between 60-70c in a roster, then let to stew by the closing of the roster doors, then raised to a temp to crystalise the sugars and stop the enzymic action of the amalayse.

Carapils is not the same product as CaraMalt, sold by a few maltser like BB and JW, Bairds, French and Jupps etc. Also, Carapils I am sure is trademarked by Weyermann, so there should only be one brand on the market.

[chris.]

Carapils is a malt kilned yes, but still has is a malt used to impart head retention via the enzymic action of a mash. As a former distributer of Weyermann items to Breweries and Homebrew shops and am now a professional brewer, take it on my recomendation to use this in a minimash. I cant see the benefit without the mash as a mash is needed to enact its goodness.

If your looking for an effect similar to Carapils but without the mash, Carahell is the malt to go for. This is a malt produced as per standard crystal malt, aka raised to the enzymic degradation temp between 60-70c in a roster, then let to stew by the closing of the roster doors, then raised to a temp to crystalise the sugars and stop the enzymic action of the amalayse.

Carapils is not the same product as CaraMalt, sold by a few maltser like BB and JW, Bairds, French and Jupps etc. Also, Carapils I am sure is trademarked by Weyermann, so there should only be one brand on the market.

You as a supplier (& a particularly pathetic low life one IMO - http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... opic=12836 but thats another story) should know that there are many brands of Carapils which have differing manufacturing process. Some brands of Carapils are produced in the same manner as you state & are actually lower kilned crystal malts akin to the Carahell you mention.

[rwh]

http://byo.com/mrwizard/776.html

[///]

Well what ever cleans your clock really, I woud not use the weyermann in that way (if it is weyermann and other than JW could not see another manufacturer availible locally) but other folks in a brew house would not do what I do; if you enjoy the beer then so be it.

Theres nothing like context and contridiction in brewing or web forums is there!

Scotty

[///]

You as a supplier (& a particularly pathetic low life one IMO - http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... opic=12836 but thats another story) should know that there are many brands of Carapils which have differing manufacturing process. Some brands of Carapils are produced in the same manner as you state & are actually lower kilned crystal malts akin to the Carahell you mention.

Just to keep things from another digest in context, the below makes interesting reading!

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... t&p=169655

[Ed]

This one again

The Weyermann Carapils is a crystal malt, not a dextrin malt, made by the same process as all their other crystal malts. My understanding is it therefore should be able to be steeped. This from Weyermann http://www.crosby-baker.com/Weyer%20Car ... 9ab8b6d281

Most of the information available on the net is US based and I believe responsible for much of the confusion surrounding the so called Carapils/Cara-pils/Carapills/etc malts. The Breiss Carapills available in the US is a dextrin malt and must be mashed. I believe in the US, "other" Carapils malts are referred to as "Belgian Carapils" ? It is understood that Belgian Carapils can be steeped but US Carapils must be used in a mash.

No wonder brewers come to head over the issue

Cheers, Ed

[lethaldog]

DAMN! an argument in a thread and i wasnt involved!!!!

Wonders will never cease

[chris.]

This one again

The Weyermann Carapils is a crystal malt, not a dextrin malt, made by the same process as all their other crystal malts. My understanding is it therefore should be able to be steeped. This from Weyermann http://www.crosby-baker.com/Weyer%20Car ... 9ab8b6d281

Most of the information available on the net is US based and I believe responsible for much of the confusion surrounding the so called Carapils/Cara-pils/Carapills/etc malts. The Breiss Carapills available in the US is a dextrin malt and must be mashed. I believe in the US, "other" Carapils malts are referred to as "Belgian Carapils" ? It is understood that Belgian Carapils can be steeped but US Carapils must be used in a mash.

No wonder brewers come to head over the issue

Cheers, Ed

yes this old one again Ed.

Nice link Ed
Not sure on the "Belgain Carapils"/"Carapils" confusion. I think that Weyermann Carapils is sold in ths US as Carafoam?

Just on the Briess Carapils it is also a Crystal/Caramel Malt & only needs to be steeped: http://www.briess.com/pdf/Malthouse%20I ... t%20WK.pdf
So from what I can gather JW (if it's even still available?), Weyermann, & Briess all only need to be steeped.

Theres nothing like context and contridiction in brewing or web forums is there!

Scotty

When in Rome.....

[Danzar]

DAMN! an argument in a thread and i wasnt involved!!!!

Wonders will never cease

Hmpf!

An argument in MY thread actually

I charge $46 per expletive and a straight tenner per contradictory link.