Is there a packaged cpa style yeast.

gecko · Post by **gecko** » Friday Dec 01, 2006 2:00 pm

Are you stirring the pot drsmurto.

NTRabbit · Post by **NTRabbit** » Friday Dec 01, 2006 2:05 pm

A friend of mine got a tour of the Coopers Brewery led by Glen himself last week. Pity he didn't have the knowledge to ask the question, and pity I was invited but decided not to go - it was supposed to be a networking thing for young engineers, which I'm not.

drsmurto · Post by **drsmurto** » Friday Dec 01, 2006 2:10 pm

No Gecko - straight shooting from me. Am a paid up member of the coopers club altho i really am not sure why, member package was pretty ordinary this year and the club night on tuesday was ordinary. The forum is dead, lucky to get a post a week! So i found this one and havent looked back!

Seriously tho - they do centrifuge their beer to strip off most of the yeast and then add a small quantity when priming. Seems overly complicated to me. The fact its on their forum means its not a state secret.

Tipsy · Post by **Tipsy** » Friday Dec 01, 2006 9:09 pm

They do make a point on their forum of telling everyone that it is the same yeast used to bottle condition. They seem to be very proud of the fact.

breadnbutter · Post by **breadnbutter** » Monday Dec 04, 2006 7:26 pm

Great topic, obviously judging by the contention!

My understanding (from the fly off the horses mouth - ie the brewer at TWOC HBS in WA who previously had a profession visit at Coopers) is that the centrifugation is practiced (as common in Belgian beers) and a secondary yeast (ie different) is added prior to bottle fermentation.

My inference is that the primary yeast may not flocculate well, as is the case in Duvel (aka Wyeast 1388) so to clarify the beer they use a separate yeast (also has the benefit of IP protection). FYI I have prep'd a wort and split it into two fermenters, one with Coopers packet yeast and cultured CPA yeast. I was really looking forward to some interesting differences but sadly disappointed - we had a blind tasting with a number of professional wine tasters - the differences were subtle (and most probably disguised by the fact I didn't bulk-prime). Perhaps the conditioning yeast is the same as the packet yeast???

Cheers

Pale_Ale · Post by **Pale_Ale** » Tuesday Dec 05, 2006 8:26 am

Hmm it seems we have 2 differing theories on this.

I have heard they use ALOT of yeast in the primary to brew out in about 4 days at 16-18*. This would justify the centrifuging even if they then add the same yeast again.

On the other hand it makes perfect sense that they use a conditioning yeast and that they would also want to protect their investment.

Hmmmmmmm

drsmurto · Post by **drsmurto** » Tuesday Dec 05, 2006 11:30 am

Pale_Ale

Not sure how fast they ferment but i would think they use the centrifuge to strip off the yeast so it can be re-used. I had a tour back in 99 (when they were still at Leabrook) and i recall them saying some of the yeast is 70+ years old. Think my memory is working.

But - the SAME yeast is in the bottles/keg for secondary. 99% sure of that.

Noone is trying to commercially replicate Coopers Ales so they have no need to keep that a secret. Unless you lot have a microbrewery.........

Cheers
DrSmurto

breadnbutter · Post by **breadnbutter** » Tuesday Dec 05, 2006 12:08 pm

Drsmurto; One (important) point I forgot to mention was that prior to moving from Leabrook Coopers DID bottle with the primary yeast - upon moving a decision was made to change that. Now this is heresay (ie fly on horses mouth) but as reliable as the rest of this thread.

Hmmmm, Coopers have done well in (intentionally or not) allowing this conspiracy to "ferment"

Cheers

drsmurto · Post by **drsmurto** » Tuesday Dec 05, 2006 12:31 pm

breadnbutter - shocking pun mate!

It isnt 100% clear on the coopers forum what they use in secondary so until we are told the conspiracy continues.

Anyone have any aged CPAs?
Cheers
DrSmurto

Pale_Ale · Post by **Pale_Ale** » Tuesday Dec 05, 2006 9:07 pm

I wish I still had the boutique bottled Pales. I recently had CSA about 2 months ago that was bottled years and years ago, but all gone now

drsmurto · Post by **drsmurto** » Wednesday Dec 06, 2006 8:21 am

Ok. Time to clear things up.

Coopers have been centrifuging and then priming with yeast for more than 10 years now and they have always used the same yeast for both primary and secondary - Dr Tim says so!

There have always been lots of rumours with Coopers and how they do things. I was lucky enough to get a tour of the old leabrook site and am keen to get organised and see how the new brewery compares altho having seen the old site and seeing firsthand all the history etc it may ruin my image of Coopers......

Cheers
DrSmurto

p.s. they have AGED CSA on tap at the Austral in Adelaide. Anyone done a taste test on the aged vs 'fresh' stuff?

Pale_Ale · Post by **Pale_Ale** » Wednesday Dec 06, 2006 10:04 am

I have done a comparison of old Sparkling, new sparkling, aged, I've tried it all.

It's probably one of the most unpredictable ales in that it changes so dramtically and varies more than most beers.

Just after they moved from Leabrook all their Ales were terrible for a while because the yeast was upset (from the relocation).

Sparkling Ale gets ALOT better as it gets older but it does tend to go downhill in my view after about 2 years.

The Austral probably just keeps a surplus of kegs and has a storage time prior to kegging on tap. It does taste pretty good from The Austral and interestingly I find the kegged stuff more fruity.

breadnbutter · Post by **breadnbutter** » Wednesday Dec 06, 2006 10:42 am

Drsmurto; Why the change of story? You previously said it was unclear which yeast they use for secondary but now "Dr Tim says so"...

ps, Bugger it, I was in Adelaide last week and dying to find somewhere I could get some special Coopers. I couldn't go on their tours because I was there on the wrong day and certainly didn't know anything about the Austral. There is no god!

Cheers

drsmurto · Post by **drsmurto** » Wednesday Dec 06, 2006 10:52 am

breadnbutter

Been in touch with the Coopers homebrew club and got some direct answers to my questions but when i asked about the methods at the Leabrook site compared to the new regency site they had to go away and ask Dr Tim who said they started the centrifuge process in 94 ie. while they were still at Leabrook.

Also been assured that they have always have used the same yeast in primary and secondary. Again, i cant see why they wouldnt.

As for the Austral, one of the best pubs in Adelaide and has some bloody tasty CSA on tap. Spent far too many years propping up the bar during my uni days! Was also there on Thursday but was too far gone to appreciate the aged stuff. Also, the Coopers Alehouse (formerly the Earl of Aberdeen) has Vintage on tap - mmmmmmmm.

Cheers
DrSmurto

drsmurto · Post by **drsmurto** » Wednesday Dec 06, 2006 2:16 pm

For a nice virtual tour (if you live interstate) or are too tight to fork out the cash on the real deal (that be me), then check out the virtual tour of the Coopers Brewery. Good to see the process is a larger version of the AG method talked about here!

http://www.coopers.com.au/virtualBrewTour/default.php

Cheers
DrSmurto

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 10:56 am

That's it! I've had enough of this. I'm going to go ask Paul Mercurio!!!

That's if his cholesterol is in order...

Post by **Oliver** » Sunday Dec 10, 2006 9:31 pm

drsmurto wrote:... they have AGED CSA on tap at the Austral in Adelaide. Anyone done a taste test on the aged vs 'fresh' stuff?

This is amazing stuff. You've all got to try it before you die ... then you'll die happy.

I'll be back in Adelaide at Christmas, and making a trip to the Austral for a schooner of the aged stuff.

Cheers,

Oliver

drsmurto · Post by **drsmurto** » Monday Dec 11, 2006 8:32 am

This is amazing stuff. You've all got to try it before you die ... then you'll die happy.

I'll be back in Adelaide at Christmas, and making a trip to the Austral for a schooner of the aged stuff.

Cheers,

Oliver

Nectar of the gods mate! Altho i recommend a pint over the schooner

Pale_Ale · Post by **Pale_Ale** » Monday Dec 11, 2006 4:03 pm

Not bad prices either, I think they do something like $4 pints of any Coopers (they have Pale, Dark and Sparkling on tap from memory).