Avoiding HB flavour from Kit Hops?

gecko · Post by **gecko** » Wednesday Dec 06, 2006 4:16 pm

After reading a fair few posts on here I realise just how much of a novice I really am.

I'm after some advice on how to avoid the "Home Brew" flavour that most 1.7Kg cans seem to give (ie. Coopers range from Coles supermarkets). I've come to the conclusion that it more than likely comes down to the sugars used in primary and maybe moreso the lousy coopers carb drops for the lazy man.

Can the Home Brew Wizards be so kind as to offer suggestions on how I may improve the flavour and also the head retention of my brews (drsmurto has also placed a post on this issue).

Cheers all.

Pale_Ale · Post by **Pale_Ale** » Wednesday Dec 06, 2006 4:53 pm

Hi Gecko,

I'm no whizz either, but I've found lower fermentation tmeperatures are the most effective way to eliminate the 'home brew taste'.

With, say, a Coopers Pale Ale kit, try and ferment as close to 18 degrees, or as close to that as you can get. Also keep the temperature consistent.

As for the carb drops, these would not impart any bad flavours in your beer, but they do tend to overcarbonate them IMO. 1 carbonation drop for a longneck is best provided a good amount of time to carb up. I now bulk prime with dextrose and won't look back.

Regarding the head retention, others will be more helpful, but my few suggestions are
- Never use brewing sugar - always use malt instead
- Add some dried corn syrup
- Use wheat malt

Schooner · Post by **Schooner** » Wednesday Dec 06, 2006 7:50 pm

There is really only so much doctoring up that you can do to kit beers and IMHO you will never get rid of that home brew taste unless you go to partial or full mash beers - partials I can still tell the difference.

I am a Coopers brewer and have played around with adding just about everything to get rid of that taste but in the end maybe throw in some hopps for flavour and at best have only ever considered it "drinkable" in the long run - thats why I am going AG .

As far as head retention I got one word - KEG

scblack · Post by **scblack** » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 8:52 am

Better head retention can be gained by bulk priming with Dextrose. For directions search for it, and its the best way I find to bottle.

As for flavours, as Pale_ale said, lower consistent temperatures but also using Malt extracts rather than plain old dextrose.

Another one I have just started using, is fresh Hop Pellets rather than teabag styles. MUCH better aromas and actually much better value too. I get mine from http://www.craftbrewer.com.au and they arrive next day. Makes good good beers.

And, I was mainly a Coopers brewer from Coles - get to a home brew shop and try some different brand kits, and the malt/sugar blends they have. It only costs a few dollars more per brew, but does make a noticeable difference in the finished product.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 10:36 am

You can get beers as good as AG with malt extract. Kit beers don't always have 'that HB flavour.'

Use malt as your fermentable, and keep your temps down, and you'll be right.

Aussie Claret · Post by **Aussie Claret** » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 12:08 pm

And replace the kit yeast, use an alternative dry (such as the saf range) or liquid yeast (white labs / Wyeast).
Fermented at the recommended temps will improve the beer out of sight.
AC

DarkFaerytale · Post by **DarkFaerytale** » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 1:00 pm

i'm reading through this ATM it's more for extract brewers than kit brewers but it may help

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/librar ... erson.html

-Phill

Schooner · Post by **Schooner** » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 5:29 pm

Chris wrote:You can get beers as good as AG with malt extract.

I would love to taste your beer mate, but sorry guy's kit beer just don't cut it.
( just my personal opinion)

Ed · Post by Ed » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 7:21 pm

I have to agree with you Schooner.

While it's possible to go some way to improve kit brews through the use of boiling, adding hops, paying attention to ferment temps, adding grains, using all malt, picking the right yeast, etc, etc, the kit or extract flavour referred to as "twang" remains. This can be hidden to some extent, and probably more in a dark full flavour style, but it remains. It's kind of like comparring a freshly made meal (all grain) against a frozen tv dinner (kit + kilo of sugar). The more trouble you go to with understanding the ingredients, using good ingredients, and tweaking the recipe, the better the result (everything else being equal that is).

Gecko, there is some good advice already posted in the other replies that will improve the brews quite a bit, but Schooner is correct in what he says.

Cheers, Ed

gecko · Post by **gecko** » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 7:48 pm

So far lads the information is excellent and thankyou to all. I would love to know how to actually go through with grains and suppose I'd require the patience to go along with it. I'll have to get drsmurto around for a bit of experimentation.

As far as kit brews go....aren't there some that are around $30 that surely would be of a far higher quality than the old coles specials? (Appologies for the dumb question as I've never actually set foot in a HB shop yet. And in that statement alone I'm now kicking myself.)

What are the minimum requirements for grain brewing? No. of worts, size of pots ect.

Thanks again

morgs · Post by **morgs** » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 7:52 pm

Mate as far as i am concerned all you have to do is read the sticky "simple things that make hb better" . Start with a good can and add the extras and you'll feel weird buying commercial beer again. Go see a decent hbs also.

morgs · Post by **morgs** » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 7:54 pm

Oh yeah nothing wrong with carb drops. maybe more expensive than bulk priming but a lot less work

lethaldog · Post by **lethaldog** » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 7:58 pm

morgs wrote:Oh yeah nothing wrong with carb drops. maybe more expensive than bulk priming but a lot less work

Id have to disagree, it doesnt take as long to clean an extra fermenter as it does to put those little bastards in the bottles and the results i got from carb drops were always inconsistent but each to thier own

SpillsMostOfIt · Post by **SpillsMostOfIt** » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 8:37 pm

lethaldog wrote:
morgs wrote:Oh yeah nothing wrong with carb drops. maybe more expensive than bulk priming but a lot less work
Id have to disagree, it doesnt take as long to clean an extra fermenter as it does to put those little bastards in the bottles and the results i got from carb drops were always inconsistent but each to thier own

It strikes me that the carb drops are at least four times more expensive than doing it any other way in terms of ingredient. I personally don't have an issue with measuring sugar into individual bottles - but ask me in a few brews' time.

I suspect that after a while, bulk priming is the only way to go if you are going to do lots of brewing. I hope that I get to that stage one day...

Pale_Ale · Post by **Pale_Ale** » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 8:43 pm

Agree that Carb drops are inconsistent.

They are easy, but I find they overcarbonate my brews. Haven't looked back since bulk priming.

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Thursday Dec 07, 2006 9:34 pm

also I found carb drops make a big weird soapy looking head, dextrose is so much better. those little scoops aren't expensive.

Biggles · Post by **Biggles** » Friday Dec 08, 2006 5:55 am

gecko wrote:As far as kit brews go....aren't there some that are around $30 that surely would be of a far higher quality than the old coles specials?

I am by no means an experienced brewer but the $30 Kits I have done ie: TCB Wetpac's they are loads better than the can brews Ive done.
The wheat beer from TCB is fantastic and has no "homebrew" taste and the APA is superb as well.

gecko · Post by **gecko** » Friday Dec 08, 2006 7:52 am

Looks like i'll be buying another wort for bulk priming. I'm heading into the HB shop this arvo and am sure those lads will give me some good advice as well.

I'll also be using dextrose to prime rather than the carb drops from now on too. I've found that they don't carbonate enough. Waste of time.

Great info lads. Thanks again.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Friday Dec 08, 2006 9:08 am

I think that if you can't get a malt extract brew to taste as good, if not better than an AG beer, then you might need to consider your process and ingredients.

I'd drink a ME beer over VB- an AG beer, any day!

alangman · Post by **alangman** » Friday Dec 08, 2006 9:19 am

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this yet

. Gecko, the first, best and cheapest thing you can do is read the online book How To Brew. This is simply fantastic and it is FREE. It covers everything from the bare basics to a complete guide to all grain brewing. Again, simply fantastic. Supplement this knowledge by reading the "stickies" at the top of the Making Beer section and you'll be well on your way!

All the best,

Adam L