Can you make a 1st class beer using the can yeast?

[The Brew]

Seems a pity to waste the yeast that comes with the can, however I would rather do that if need be to make something pretty special!
Given that yeast quickly multiplies I would think it should not matter that you use the yeast that comes with the can, even if some of the yeast has died. Is there a difference in yeast quality with the different brands? Does flocculent yeast improve the taste of just make the beer clearer?

[Oliver]

The Brew,

Yeast can have a huge influence on how a beer turns out.

Different cans of concentrate are supplied with varying qualities (and quantities) of yeast.

For instance, a can that claims to be a "lager" may in fact come with an ale yeast, which will produce a fruitier, more full-bodied beer than a lager yeast will. Also, I'm sure some kits come with the cheapest yeast possible, which isn't necessarily going to be the best.

So the bottom line is that if you're confident about the quality of the yeast that comes with the can, then use it. If you're not confident, or you want to try another yeast, do so.

As for flocculent yeasts producing clearer beers, in my experience it comes down to how the beer is served. If you pour smoothly and in one go, you won't disturb the sediment and your beer will be clear. However, if you're not so careful when you pour, the advantage of a yeast like Safale, which sticks to the bottom of the bottle like cement, becomes apparent.

Cheers,

Oliver

[kitkat]

- racking to secondary and letting your beer rest for a week will improve clarity dramatically - you'll just see how much sediment is at the bottom of the secondary and realise why people bottling from primary straight after fermentation has ended have cloudy beers. Then you can even go further and cold condition for a month. I

- for some example descriptions of how the various types differ from each other, have a look at http://www.wyeastlab.com/beprlist.htm. They make liquid yeasts. When you see how many different kinds there are (and that's just one manufacturer), you'll start to wonder how the same generic coopers yeast can be limited (yes, I know there's more than one, but you get my point).

That said, the SAF yeast seem to be just fine.

And of course there are plenty of other considerations in the taste of your beer such as temperature, so yeast isn't the make or break - but it helps to know which yeast you're using.

[The Brew]

Thanks guys, I am still not sure if flocculent yeast makes a difference to the flavour, and which brands come with good quality yeast sachets

[r.magnay]

Well let me tell you something about home brew kits and good beer, I bottled a Coopers Heritage Bitter about three months ago, I deliberately left this one as long as I could before tasting it, and then only chilled down two stubbies, it was bloody beautiful and I think it will get better, the bubbles are still quite large, but it has good head retention and continued to work right to the last bit in the glass. It is a similar style of beer to the commercial bitters but a far superior flavour, it is made as per the directions on the can using the supplied yeast, why you would bother changing anything when you can get a beer like that is beyond me!

[kitkat]

Thanks guys, I am still not sure if flocculent yeast makes a difference to the flavour, and which brands come with good quality yeast sachets

SAFAle and SAFLager. There is also SAFWheat.


As to having a good beer with the basic ingedients: of course it's possible, never said anything to the contrary. If you're happy with it, that's the main thing.
Other people might prefer to try other things, or not use a kit at all, which means they'll have to get some yeast separately.

[normell]

Thanks guys, I am still not sure if flocculent yeast makes a difference to the flavour, and which brands come with good quality yeast sachets

SAFAle and SAFLager. There is also SAFWheat.


As to having a good beer with the basic ingedients: of course it's possible, never said anything to the contrary. If you're happy with it, that's the main thing.
Other people might prefer to try other things, or not use a kit at all, which means they'll have to get some yeast separately.

Just checked out http://www.fermentis.com who make the Saf range, Safale & Saflager, but no Safwheat ???????

Normell

[kitkat]

K97

http://www.esbeer.com.au/category3_1.htm

[normell]

From fermentis site "Safale K-97

Top cropping ale yeast for top fermented beers with low esters and wheat beers. Available in 500g packs."
Its really an ale yeast tho
Normell

[Evo]

Yeah, wheat beer yeast is an ale yeast. By definition an ale yeast is top fermenting and a lager yeast is bottom fermenting. Using the wheat beer yeast will give that characteristic phenolic taste that an ale yeast won't give.

But to answer the original question, yeah, for sure you can make a top beer using kit yeast. You just have more control (and probably more confidence) using specialty yeast.

[Hrundi V Bakshi]

Yeah, wheat beer yeast is an ale yeast. By definition an ale yeast is top fermenting and a lager yeast is bottom fermenting. Using the wheat beer yeast will give that characteristic phenolic taste that an ale yeast won't give.

But to answer the original question, yeah, for sure you can make a top beer using kit yeast. You just have more control (and probably more confidence) using specialty yeast.

What makes an ale or a lager is an ongoing timeless debate which is much more than this board can know from its members. Right at this now, yeast biologists are getting into bother about this very question very much right now but what you are saying is still very much correct.

Strains of "wheat" yeast are those that are producing the right phenols and esters for Weizen beers in Germany and there are interesting Belgian yeasts for making Wit. They are different yeasts indeed but all ale yeasts, it is true.

K-97 is not at all what you would be using to make Weizen, Weissbier or Wit. Just search the WWW if you are not believing me *chuckle*. It is a very neutral yeast (it is not producing much phenol or esters) and is very nice in a pale ale beer with tettnang hops. I am not knowing why Mr Mel at ESBeer.com.au is calling it "SafWheat"? Maybe to make a dry yeast for wheat beer as there are not other dry strains of similar available now?

Much is there to know about yeast!

One thing that I will say before leaving this topic for fermentation is that the types of yeast one is finding in kits and sachets all dry are the types of yeast that dry without dying. According to my limited understanding of this, that is the thing that makes a yeast be chosen for drying - it can come back again. White Labs and Wyeast have many many types of liquid yeasts that are being sold as liquid yeasts only because they cannot survive or keep all of their properties after drying and rehydrating.

[Oliver]

To take further and give an example of what Hrundi was just saying ...

None of the yeasts that comes with the Cooper's ranges are the same as is used in the brewery, as Cooper's has been unable to dry this yeast successfully (i.e. dry it and it dies).

Oliver

[Dogger Dan]

Guys,

Don't beat Coopers up over that. Frankly they have done a very good job in their dried yeast department and they certainly deserve the credit.

The only guys I can think that have topped it is SAF and that is only with the Lager side two thumbs up to them to for making that happen, even Coopers puts that in the can for us.

You want the million dollar idea, dry yeast succesfully.

Dogger

[normell]

Most lager kits (cans), by tooheys coopers Etc. Etc. dont put a lager yeast in the tins, and state on the instructions to brew at between 18*C and 28*C, so how the hell do you make them like a lager, but then again most of the labels STILL say "a Kilo of SUGAR" FFS

Normell

[db]

Most lager kits (cans), by tooheys coopers Etc. Etc. dont put a lager yeast in the tins, and state on the instructions to brew at between 18*C and 28*C, so how the hell do you make them like a lager, but then again most of the labels STILL say "a Kilo of SUGAR" FFS

Normell

you could try lagering/cold conditioning it

[tyrone]

Premiumn bakeing yeast is compressed not dried.Has anybody tried compressing any of the strains of brewing yeast?(commercialy I ment)

[Guest]

Don't know whether or not I asked this before but is it something that kit beer manufacturers put in/take out of their malt extract that make their lagers taste like lagers even though they supply you with Ale yeast. Can you make a half decent lager with an ale yeast?

I've never tried a homebrewed lager before (brewed with lager yeast) so I can't compare a homebrewed "lager" (brewed with ale yeast) to a homebrewed lager. Is their much difference? I assume so.

Also, to the guys that use secondary fermentation (carboy not bottle). Does the cloudiness effect the flavour of the beer or just the appearance. I've just made a Canadian Blonde with 1kg BE1, left it in the fermenter for 3 weeks (couldn't get round to bottling) and it's as cloudy ginger beer. I was expecting the worst but do you know what, it tastes bloody fantastic. Kind of like a fruity Corona.

Jay.

[Oliver]

tyrone,

I used to work in bakeries (do you, too?), and from what I remember (it was a lot of beers ago now), compressed yeast doesn't keep like dried yeast does, and needs refrigeration or to be used within a relatively short time. If so, wouldn't this make it unsuitable for inclusion with kits?

Jay,

It's my understanding that you really need to brew at cool temperatures to get the full benefit of lager yeasts (i.e. crisp, drier than ale yeast and not fruity).

Cheers,

Oliver

[Jay]

Thanks Oliver,

Thought this might be the case.

I've noticed that since I've started homebrewing I've become a definite Ale man rather than a lager man. I've even developed a fondness for stouts

Jay.

[Guest]

Yeah it does need to be refrigerated but perhaps a preiumn range of yeasts from the local HBS would be the market.No I'm a chef not a baker