Infection - first one

[Danzar]

Hi there,

After about 70 batches, I've finally managed to infect the beer. Has a vinegar/dettol/medicine taste.

What type of infection is this and is it worth bottling and waiting for it to settle, or is this a lost cause?

[hilly1981]

Hey whats the details of the brew? Recipe, fermentation time and temp etc..?

1 in 70 is a pretty good still

[Trough Lolly]

Acetobacter infection most likely...If you're brewing Lambic's then I'd congratulate you....otherwise you need to up the bar on your hygiene protocols...

Cheers,
TL

[KEG]

yeah, the vinegar description sounds like acetobacter...

[Ross]

Hi there,

After about 70 batches, I've finally managed to infect the beer. Has a vinegar/dettol/medicine taste.

What type of infection is this and is it worth bottling and waiting for it to settle, or is this a lost cause?

The dettol/medicinal flavour in my experience is usually a result of a wild yeast infection. A good clue is the beer is very murky as the yeast wont settle out. It's always hard to tell from someones description, as we all taste differently.

cheers ross

[rwh]

Medicine taste might be chlorophenols.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

[Danzar]

Medicine taste might be chlorophenols.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

Sounds closer to the mark. I was showing my friend how to brew a batch and got a feeling he didn't wash the sanitiser off. The fermenter was new so it couldn't have been a hygene issue.

[Rysa]

A quick question, sorry to jump in Danzar.
Can an infection taste alright but give you a hell of a headache?
Thought i was close to getting one with a batch a while ago but looked and tasted ok so bottled.
Have had a few of the bottles now and tastes ok but even after only a few longnecks i've been waking up with a shocker of a headache.

[rwh]

Fulsel alcohols could be the culprit.

Fusel alcohols are formed when fermentation occurs:

* at higher temperatures,
* at lower pH,
* when yeast activity is limited by low nitrogen content.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusel_alcohol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangover

[Rysa]

Either that or i just made them too strong!!
Added honey to it (a lager) but someone had been in my honeypot and left a few toast deposits which i failed to notice until it dropped in.
Fg came out at roughly 1002 after three tests which worried me also.

[rwh]

Hey check this article out:

How To Avoid A Hangover

Wine and beer contain vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, soluble fibers, cholesterol uptake inhibitors, anti-carcinogens, and other things generally accepted to be good for you. Moderate drinkers (European definition of moderate: around 3 drinks a day) outlive teetotalers by about 10 percent, partially due to these other goodies and partially due to the wonderfully ironic nature of the universe.

Classic.

[Trough Lolly]

Medicine taste might be chlorophenols.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

Sounds closer to the mark. I was showing my friend how to brew a batch and got a feeling he didn't wash the sanitiser off. The fermenter was new so it couldn't have been a hygene issue.

Danzar - what sanitiser did he/you use? Sod Met? The beer may not be infected at all, just mixed up with sanitiser...but that may not make it drinkable. I'd be surprised if you could detect Iodophor in the beer - it's a favourite no rinse sanitiser of mine...

Cheers,
TL

[Danzar]

Medicine taste might be chlorophenols.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

Sounds closer to the mark. I was showing my friend how to brew a batch and got a feeling he didn't wash the sanitiser off. The fermenter was new so it couldn't have been a hygene issue.

Danzar - what sanitiser did he/you use? Sod Met? The beer may not be infected at all, just mixed up with sanitiser...but that may not make it drinkable. I'd be surprised if you could detect Iodophor in the beer - it's a favourite no rinse sanitiser of mine...

Cheers,

TL

Idophor for the bottles. The problem was probably the use of that pink sanitising powder in the glass that we made the starter out of. I remember asking Adam whether he washed it out afterwards and he gave me a blank look (he must have went on screen saver, has a habit of doing that the 'ole fellow). By that time, it would have been too late as we had already mixed the yeast and the malt.

[Smabb]

Danzar,

The symptons match every thing I've read about chlorophenols. I'm no expert though, so I suggest you search on here for everything on chlorophenols and Dogger Dan (who posted a lot on this and other infection problems).

The last case i was aware of it was a reaction with the steriliser (bleach in that instance).

Incidentally I had my first infection spotted on the weekend too, 1 bottle/32 brews. But that was a white scum "true" infection, no doubt a product of my "streamlined" bottle cleaning techniques (but I do take care over the vat!)

Cheers

[Danzar]

Hey guys - remeber this?

I just brewed three batches. Two of them have the same infection and I'm guessing they are brewing inside the same two fermenters that had the last infection.

So, this can't be a one off clearly. Something is wrong. Before brewing I had actually replaced the taps but.....

I'm thinking it's more of that band aid taste but I'm just not sure. It also can't be the sanitiser - I'm pretty diligent and the third batch is fine.

Can you cast some fresh eyes over the post and give me some thoughts?

Some more info - the dettol/cleaning agent taste is super strong. I can smell the fumes a good 10cm away from the hydrometer and have to immediately spit it out when I taste.

[scblack]

Hi there,

After about 70 batches, I've finally managed to infect the beer. Has a vinegar/dettol/medicine taste.

What type of infection is this and is it worth bottling and waiting for it to settle, or is this a lost cause?

The dettol/medicinal flavour in my experience is usually a result of a wild yeast infection. A good clue is the beer is very murky as the yeast wont settle out. It's always hard to tell from someones description, as we all taste differently.

cheers ross

I have had exactly the same issue with six brews in a row in the past. Ross's answer sounds correct to me.

My sanitising was impeccable (including bleaching stuff), all ingredients were fresh.

The murky colour and medicinal, very sour flavours were the same in mine.

My solution that has worked for 30 subsequent brews is to boil all the brew, cool and then ferment.

[Danzar]

Interesting. I did boil the wort though. I also soaked one of the fermenters in the pink sanitising powder for a few days.

So I'm guessing that the beer is ruined and I should consider new fermenters?

[Zuma]

I'll cop some flak here but since leaving my fermenters with a sodium met solution for a few days before brewing airlock in with water I have had no problems with infection.

Your fermenters will be fine mate.

Have been using idaphor for everything else.

[spatch]

The dettol/medicinal flavour in my experience is usually a result of a wild yeast infection. A good clue is the beer is very murky as the yeast wont settle out. It's always hard to tell from someones description, as we all taste differently.

cheers ross

I've got a horrible feeling my current brew may be heading along these lines.
Its only my 3rd brew so any ideas would be good but I guess, either way, the damage may be done?

Brew has been down 8 days
Gravity has dropped from 1042 to 1017 (dropped from 1022 in last 3 days).
Still bubbling away.
Gravity sample tasted OK 3 days ago, then 2 days ago, tasted a tad iffy, but then today wasn't as bad,
a bit watery perhaps.
Gravity sample left over night does not clear up at all?
Gravity sample has a head.

Thats about as much info I can think of.

Its a Brewcraft Munich Lager, with #60 German Lager converter (included hops) and Saflager S-23 yeast kept at 15-16 degrees.
One last thing (gulp) brew was strained thru a stocking foot to remove hops bits???
Could this be the culprit if there even is a problem?

Maybe I'm just worrying too much

As a side interest, does anyone know what the hops in this "German" converter kit might be?

[KEG]

it's only down to 1017, i'd expect it to finish lower. as a result, the yeast is still working - and won't readily drop out of suspension until it's well and truly finished