Kit Brands: Good / Bad Brands

[wildschwein]

That reasoning may have a kernel of truth to it. But it only holds if there is only one supermarket chain. As far as I know there are at least two big chains and a group of independents which are competing with one another. Unless you are suggesting there is some type of cartel and price fixing arrangement in place.

Home brew shops can provide more specialised equipment and products than the big supermarkets which will ensure their survival.

I don't belive home brew shops impart some special aura to their products and if I can get the seem thing somewhere else at a better price I will.

[Chris]

I just like to help out local merchants. One day they'll all be gone.

And don't you think it's strange that the two big supermarkets have sales on the same items every week, but in different sizes?

And as for independents, they have a tiny proportion of market-share.

Go Aldi!

[wildschwein]

Look, I understand what your saying and I'm much more left-wing than most people but i simply don't have a large enough income to have any real choice on the issue.

Sure I go to the HB shop and buy the things that I use that aren't available in the supermarket but I'm not going to pay an additional price for something I can get cheaper which is much closer as my supermarket is a 1 minute walk away and my HBS is 20km away by bus.

[Chris]

It's alright, I know where you are coming from Most people (including me) have bought kits from supermarkets at some time. I'm just giving the little guys a bit of a voice in this Coles/Woolworths run world.

Keep brewing any way you can!

[chris.]

Yeah go the LHBS! Screw the majors! & hooray for Aldi!....

Makes perfect sense.

[wildschwein]

'm just giving the little guys a bit of a voice in this Coles/Woolworths run world

I don't think they run the world rather they're products of particular economic system/environment. Until we access and reorder the way resources are distributed we will continue to have the constant problem of larger businesses gobbling up smaller ones. From memory, in the U.S., in the early 20th century when car manufacture began there was over one hundred different car manufacturers: where are they today?

[Chris]

Yep. That's the way it works. That and "brand-consciousness," where everyone thinks that one brand is so much better than another, simply because of advertising. Reminds me of Carlton vs Tooheys...

Unfortunately "brands" are only (generally) sold at the big 2 supermarkets, hence people shop there, paying approximately 30-80%+ more on certain items than if they went elsewhere. Kind of strange really, when people tend to think of supermarkets as cheaper They get you in the door for cheap stuff, but jack up prices on everything else.

Oh well, at least they sell beer kits, as I may not have brewed nearly as much in those first few months without the cheaper prices

[TommyH]

Yeah go the LHBS! Screw the majors! & hooray for Aldi!....

Makes perfect sense.

Hmmmm... Hooray for Aldi. One of the largest retail chains in the world!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi

[chris.]

Yeah go the LHBS! Screw the majors! & hooray for Aldi!....

Makes perfect sense.

Hmmmm... Hooray for Aldi. One of the largest retail chains in the world!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi

[Zuma]

I know a former butcher who has spent the last 5 or so years trying to find the best snags in Melbourne.

His conclusion, the Woolworths. No shit. And they're acutally made by the supermarket. Coopers just happen to resell their kits to the supermarkets. And personally, I hate the BrewCraft kit converters. I like to know what I am doing to each brew, so I can modify it later, not the mention their instructions which usually lead to the novice boiling the grain, and the crappy tannin taste. But thats a personally choice. My best brew is a Coopers, albeit with crystal, Cascade, and all malt. Pretty much all the Brands are identical IMHO, the only real difference is the bittering (how much and iso or real hops). What you add to the can is far more important, so long as it is to your taste. And even then some of the old prejudices are altering. Belgian Candy is really popular at the moment, but it is the same as invert sugar, which you can buy at the supermarket, and is very similar to Golden Syrup and Honey. And the only difference from sucrose is that it has been hydrolysed before the yeast can get to it, but the esters can still be produced (which are due primarily to the presence of fructose, which is still there in invert)

Can't believe that he rated Woolies snaggers.


They don't even use natural casings.

Tsk. tsk..

[mobydick]

It's hard to find a good butcher.

Personally I'd rate Woolies sausages a long way down my list. Just fat and lecithin in a condom.

[wildschwein]

It's very difficult to find any sausages without a synthetic casing. Some good butchers may still use it.

Continental butchers are the way to go. Here in Perth the only place to get real sausages with intestinal casings is a place called Dubrovniks. My motto is: if lots of Germans go there it must good or close to the real thing.

[blandy]

That reasoning may have a kernel of truth to it. But it only holds if there is only one supermarket chain. As far as I know there are at least two big chains and a group of independents which are competing with one another. Unless you are suggesting there is some type of cartel and price fixing arrangement in place.

Last year I was at a guest lecture by someone from the ACCC. He had a few things to say about Coles Vs Safeway/Woolorths: (no direct quotes, just what I remember)

- They each have a much greater share of the Australian market than Wal-Mart has in the US

- If they chose to, they have the market power to collude and force others out of business, then make huge profits.

- EXEPT, Australian competition laws won't let them, and they seem hell bent on competing with each other.


As for stocking HB stuff, my supermarket's got a fair range of kits, but I'd never go there. More often than not I'll drive or take the train to Grain and Grape. Supermarkets will never be able to compete profitably with homebrew shops on anything other than price. Price alone (within reason) will not stop people like me travelling to the other side of Melbourne for some good advice.

No grains at my supermarket either.

[Pale_Ale]

I'll shop at the home brew store when possible, particularly because the supermarkets don't have the range i.e LME and a good variety of kits as well as spec grains.

I'll still go to the supermarket occasionally though for bottlecaps or the odd kit, and I don't mind doing so.

I tend to agree that we should support local industry but with $3-$4 difference in price for Coopers kits, I won't be buying any from my hbs anytime soon.

In my opinion there will always be room for the local HBS because of the sound advice, wide variety and the relationship that you can develop with the owner/service attendant.

[wildschwein]

It's interesting that the impetus is placed on us as consumers to support local business. You see this ethos in the "Australian Made" advertising campaign which has run on and off over a number of years. This type of ethos masks an underlying anxiety which really relates to a fear of global capitalism and how multinationals companies can gobbel up smaller industries across state boundaries through various means. And yet governments and politicians and economic theorists world wide who have pushed and expanded this neo-classical economic crap since the 1970s then put the impetus onto the consumer to provide charity to smaller industries, which, because of their size find it difficult to compete in a global market dominated by big businesses. These smaller businesses have been screwed by free market ideologues not by regular people who must buy at the best possible price. It's kind of like the way the common homeowner or citizen is told and expected to reduce their water use although most water in Australia is used by agriculture and industry not regular people.

Don't get me wrong, I really like having HB shops around. I use them when I need something not available in the supermarket, (ie spec grains, some small equipment, yeasts etc) but like you say Pale there is no way I'm going to fork an additional amount of money for the same thing I can get cheaper. I'm not rolling in money (I live on 25-30% of the average wage) and I have to make the most rational economic choices I can if I want to keep homebrewing.

I don't think we will see the end of HB shop. As long as a specialised market exists for home brew products and equipment they'll be around.

[Sathias]

The way I look at it is if I buy local, the money stays local. If I buy something from a foreign comany, the money leaves our shores (well at least the profit part of it) and contributes to our foreign trade defecit. If I buy from a company such as Sanitarium, not only does the money go off-shore, but because they are owned by the Mormons, it contributes no tax inside this country.

I guess it could be seen as a fear of globalisation but its pure pragmatism in my mind. Buying local is good for our economy. Not that I ban myself from buying from supermarkets/corporations, and I'd never think badly of anyone for making different choices than I do, but I can see real benefits to doing so.

[wildschwein]

The truth is our economic success is largely predicated on our export of primary materials to China and other wealthier nations. We might think we're doing all right at the moment as there's jobs and everyone's buying a lot of stuff, but it's mainly Chinese imports and not our own manufactures. I doubt we as home brewers are going to make a huge differnece.

[Sathias]

You're precisely right. I guess my preference for buying local has more to do with warm fuzzies than anything. That and I'm a bit lazy so I'd prefer to get everything at once at the HB store than trek to the supermarket for the stuff I can get there

[bottle top]

If I buy from a company such as Sanitarium, not only does the money go off-shore, but because they are owned by the Mormons, it contributes no tax inside this country.

Actually Sanitarium is owned by the seventh day adventists, but you're right about not paying taxes as the profits are channeled into the church, a non-profit organisation. Don't know much about these characters but I think they do a lot of charity work and they're not the most extreme of the crackpot religions out there.

[Zuma]

It's very difficult to find any sausages without a synthetic casing. Some good butchers may still use it.

Continental butchers are the way to go. Here in Perth the only place to get real sausages with intestinal casings is a place called Dubrovniks. My motto is: if lots of Germans go there it must good or close to the real thing.

Dubrovnik are excellent. I recommend the meatloaf with sauer kraut in a roll.

The bratwurst and shinkan wurst are tops too.

Princi in Hilton make a great Pork and Fennel as well.

All natural..