My first brew smells like cider, was it the temperature?

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bigturkey
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Location: Freshwater, NSW

My first brew smells like cider, was it the temperature?

Post by bigturkey »

Hello there,
I just tried my first bottle from my first batch. It looks like beer, has a head like beer, and more-or-less tastes like beer... only the smell, well it smells a little like cider!

It does has a slightly cidery taste, but it's only a hint - but the main thing is the smell. Could it be that the wort was too warm?

It was a coopers lager with coopers yeast and coopers brewing sugar. You guessed it, I got the coopers homebrew kit :)

I mixed the wort a bit warm, about 28 degrees, but following the instructions I pitched anyway - overnight the wort temp dropped to 26, then remained at around 24 for the remainder of the fermentation.

The instructions said it should take 4-7 days, but after 7 days the hydrometer read 1011 (Not 1010 as the instructions suggested).

So I left it another day and then bottled (I now understand that 10-14 days doesn't hurt).

Now in retrospect, I realise that a temp more like 19-21 degrees would have been better for the fermentation.

Will this cidery taste disappear as the beer ages in the bottle?

...

Being an impatient sort of chap, within a few days of bottling the first batch, I was down the homebrew shop getting my second set of ingredients.

The bloke in the store was helpful, and I ended up walking out with a 3KG kit of X-tract lager, and some dextrose (to up the strength a little).

That night I sanitised, and then mixed this little lot up (3KG X-Tract kit, and 500g of dextrose). The kit comes with SAFLAGER yeast (which I hear is great), only I think I may have brewed too warm again!

This time round, I pitched into a mix that was too warm, the day before a heatwave! The wort started at 28, then hovered around 26 degrees for the first 4 days, and has been around 22-23 for the last 3. It's still bubbling so I don't have an FG reading yet.

Have I stuffed this one up?

Is a brewing fridge going to be my smartest next move?

Thanks for reading this! Looking forward to some sage advice.

Richard
- Rich
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KEG
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Post by KEG »

yeah, temps will cause that. fluctuating temperatures are just as bad if not worse though.

a good idea is to put the fermenter in the bath or laundry trough, half full of cold water with a wet towel wrapped around the fermenter. evaporative cooling will go a great deal towards keeping the temp down.
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Chris
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Post by Chris »

Short answer... YES!!! :D
Kevnlis
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Post by Kevnlis »

Good news is with some time (a few months) in the bottle it should get better... hopefully.
Prost and happy brewing!

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bigturkey
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Location: Freshwater, NSW

Thanks fellas

Post by bigturkey »

Thanks - at least I'm on the right track!

How can I tell if the second batch is going to be worth bottling?

(I'd almost rather bin it and start again if it's going to taste like I made it in the rubbish bin...)

Cheers
- Rich
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warra48
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Post by warra48 »

The taste will stay there, but will moderate somewhat over time. I'd suggest you chill your beer as much as you can before you drink it. Also, why not brew an ale with an ale yeast, for your next brew? Get it down to about 20ºC, and then pitch your yeast. KEG's advice about how to do that is good.
Lagers must be one of the most difficult beers to get right for a beginning home brewer. Goodness only knows why the HB kit makers continue to fill their kits with lagers, and then give totally useless instructions, which almost guarantee a result like you have ended up with.
Instead, the stickies on this site about basic brewing instructions are gold, and well worth a read before you start your next batch.
Don't give up, you will learn as you go along, and your beer will improve.
P.S. Great beach you have at Freshwater.
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earle
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Post by earle »

Agreed, leave lagers till the weather cools down, try some ales for now.

A couple of tips to keep the starting temp down.
- I'm not sure if the Coopers instructions still say to dissolve the kit in boiling water, but I just put a few litres of tap water in my fermenter, heat the kit (and malt extract) can/s in boiling water to soften the contents, then tip them in on top of the water and give a good stir. Then if your adding dextrose or dry malt extract you can keep the boiling water to dissolve them to a minimum.
- Put a few litres of water in the fridge and use it when topping up the fermenter to bring the temp down. Don't add too much though, you should aim for a starting temp which is the same as you brewing temp.

Earle
Kevnlis
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Post by Kevnlis »

Good tips, but I still fill the tins with boiling water after I have poured them in just to get as much goodness from them as possible ;)
Prost and happy brewing!

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501
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hey

Post by 501 »

Hey I noticed you used the Coopers Brewing Sugar in the cidery batch ?

That is a mix of Sucrose(sugar) and this is likely where most of the cider flavours came from, as the yeast in a coopers lager aint really lager yeast.

A couple of older kit and kilo brewers I know use sugar and their beers definitely improve in say 3-4 months.

In the second batch gee as mentioned above it's way too warm for lagers atm,
you could call it a 'steam' beer perhaps.

Don't worry about it though sure it will be drinkable.

Cheers
:idea:
|V|()R3 833R5 P|_33Z
bigturkey
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Post by bigturkey »

Thanks all for the great advice! Especially those words of encouragement; that was potentially a demotivating moment :)

I vowed to keep brewing until I can make beer that's better than any slab thats available in the bottleshop. (and to be honest, I don't think that's an unreasonable goal?)

So - I'm going to bottle some, if not most of this 'steam beer' (thanks 501), just so that I know how it turns out.

I'm going to grab another kit - an Ale this time, (probably the Muntons Gold IPA?) - and I'm going to brew it in a wet towel in the bath (although I'm not sure what the misses will think? thanks KEG!).

Longer term, it sounds like a fridge with a temp controller is the safest way to go.

Once again, thanks all for the tips and insights - I've sure learned a lot since I posted yesterday!

Cheers
- Rich
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earle
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Post by earle »

Good tips, but I still fill the tins with boiling water after I have poured them in just to get as much goodness from them as possible
Sorry, forgot to say I use a scraper (sanitised) to get the rest out. Probably not quite as much as with hot water but still keeps the temp down.
Kevnlis
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Post by Kevnlis »

bigturkey wrote:I vowed to keep brewing until I can make beer that's better than any slab thats available in the bottleshop. (and to be honest, I don't think that's an unreasonable goal?)
In 4 years I have made less than a handful of brews that I would consider inferior to your average slab of megaswill.

Fresh high quality kits like Muntons, some spec grains, and controlled temps and you will be well on your way to making the best beers you have ever had.
Prost and happy brewing!

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warra48
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Post by warra48 »

Brewing a beer better than megaswill is something we all achieve relatively easily, even with K&K brewing. K&K brewing can produce great beers (ask Dr Smurto about how he did with Boonie's LCPA clone).
If you want to move into specialty grain adjuncts, and then AG brewing, you will not look back.
Out of my 17 brews this year to date, there are only two I wouldn't rate (and i know what went wrong). Brew 1 had the same problem as yours. Brew 7 was an experiment that didn't work. The rest are all beaut drinking in their own styles, with character and flavour which leaves the megaswills for dead.
Keep at it. It's a great hobby. Enjoy it as you go, and even your less successful brews can be chalked up to experience.
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