thoughts on this belgian ale

[shimmy]

i was after a strong belgian ale after i read about Keg's brown mule recipe

3kilo esb belgian smoked ale
1kg of dried dark malt extract
a 1.25kg bag mixed of 500 gms of DLME, 500 gms of DAME, 250gms of corn syrup
yeast T-58
any hops needed????
cheers

[James L]

depending on how you are going to make it, you'll need to add some extra hops to counteract the addition of the malt sweetness.

I'm assuming you want about 23L, and that the ESB kit IBUS are around 22. The addition of the extra malt is going to drop the IBUs down to about 16. This is still within the range for the guidelines for a belgian strong ale, but you'll most probably have to add a little more hops to bump it back up.

Boil about 900g of your malt in 4L of water, add about an ounce (28g) of saaz (@4%), and boil for 15 minutes. about a minute before the end of the boil, add the rest of the dry malts (and corn syrup). so they dissolve. cool and add to the fermenter. Dont boil the ESB kit, just add that straight to the fermenter. The saaz hops will bring the IBUs back up to 22.

i hope that helps.

[KEG]

the extra malt won't drop the IBUs at all, but it'll mask the bitterness somewhat. ideally you probably want around 25-30 IBUs, not much higher.

[shimmy]

cheers for the input guys, i havent used a lot of hops in many brews as of yet, i'll have to start trying them

[earle]

the extra malt won't drop the IBUs at all, but it'll mask the bitterness somewhat.

This is why I've started looking at the IBU/OG ratio as well as the IBU. It gives you an idea of the hop/malt balance of the style and helps you achieve the appropriate perceived bitterness. For those who are not quite sure how to do this divide the calculated IBU by the original gravity. Eg ibu 32 and og 1045 would be 32/45 = 0.71. If you find the ratio for a beer that you like this will help achieve the same balance of you brew because it takes the sweetness of the malts into account. (This assumes that your malts are to style and similar to the beer your trying to clone) Beersmith displays this ratio for every recipe.

[KEG]

a rule of thumb i've heard of (and had good success with) is the half the OG to reach your approximate desired IBUs. EG. a 1050 OG: Half of 50 is 25 - so 25 IBUs.

It's worked well for me. Veer to the lower side for a maltier beer, the higher side for a more bitter, hoppy beer.

[earle]

Yep, used the 'half of OG' method as well. I like the method I described a bit better for styles that veer quite a way from this half mark. An example would be a scotch ale which is very malt focussed, calculating the ratio can help getting close to the mark, without going way overboard.

[petesbrew]

Let me warn you, this is a very smoky beer. Good if you like smoked cheese.
I loved it, by the way.

[James L]

smokey as in smokey dawson? or smokey and the bandit?

[shimmy]

sorry to sound like an idiot but what does the formula (half the OG) IBU's mean in terms of the hops, is it grams of hops to add??
og1050 half that is 25, so is it 25 grams of hops???
cheers for all the info guys

[earle]

Not 25g of hops, but 25 IBU of bitterness from the hops. (International Bittering Units, I think)

Either use Beersmith if you've got it set up right or an online calculator like this one to calculate your IBU.

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/Calcula ... p_calc.htm

Most times if you post your OG and IBU with your recipe someone might check it for you.

Cheers

[Bizier]

smokey as in smokey dawson? or smokey and the bandit?

I think it was smokey bear rather than beer - though if I remember, he was always telling me to reduce the amount of smoke.

[Bizier]

And I have to acknowledge a good thread, I am currently looking at 'rule of thumb' kind of calculations such as these to generate recipes, as I am entirely inexperienced.

[KEG]

have a look at this then.. it's been posted before i believe, but it's pretty useful

[Kevnlis]

Though I suggest when using the chart you not count simple sugars as part of the gravity. The belgians tend to use a lot of sugar and not so many IBUs. My last Belgian was off that chart as far as gravity goes, but only about 25 IBUs from memory. However the actualy gravity contributed from malt was probably well within the range of that chart and produced what I have been told is a well balanced beer (haven't actually tried it myself, and I lost the recipe so I can not be more specific).

EDIT:

Found the recipe, it is as follows:

13L batch

4 kilos Bo Pils
500g Munich II

Mashed at 70C for 45 min

The following adjuncts after boil:
500g Dex
300g Honey
200g Brown Sugar

30g EKG FWH 60 min - 25ish IBUs

Fermented with T-58 for 2 days then added 1 kilo of local cherries destemed but otherwise left whole (not the sour kind) which had been frozen in a ziplock bag for a week, then the bag removed from the freezer and soaked at 70C for 45 min and put directly into primary. Primary took nearly 3 weeks (mostly because I was being lazy). Bottled with a little extra priming sugar because I like a good bubbly head on my Belgians

I think it was about 12-13% all up? Never did the maths.

[shimmy]

after 19 days fermenting its down to 1030 after an OG of 1092, reckon it will be okay to bottle on saturday arvo??
cheers

[KEG]

it should get lower than that i'd think.. perhaps rack it to get the yeast moving again.

[hoohaaman]

Yep I'd rack also for a week or so.Belgians are slow at finishing.