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drsmurto wrote:The key point to remember is that when you make a starter you are making yeast, not beer.
Yeast prefer to get jiggy with it at temps we normally wouldnt brew at. 20+C. I routinely make my starters at 25C and then chill o/n in the fridge, pour off the beer and pitch only the slurry.
As for temps, the budvar yeast is much cleaner at temps below 14C. Check out the wyeast website.
Both on my list to purchase but Budvar is still my fave.
Cheers
DrSmurto
I've made a few lagers and yeah, I'm with Doc on this one and use the relatively warm temps to build up the yeast before using it to ferment the lagers at lower temps.
+1 on the Budvar rave! I do think it's a relatively low diacetyl producer...You just have to get used to the long lag times it sometimes freaks you out with but I've found the wait to be worth it - especially when you make Dortmunders with it....very nice IMHO!
I made a nice lager on the weekend (AG of course).. and pitched about 600ml of yeast into the wort when it got dowm to 10C... it was bubbling within 10 hours, which i thought was pretty good considering i've had others that have need 4 days to get going...
I freely admit that I was Very Very Drunk....
"They speak of my drinking, but never consider my thirst."
Was reading a good article in BYO magazine last night about yeast pitching rates. Certainly got me thinking about some of my techniques, particularly how large a starter i need to make and also, what effect dumping on top a yeast cake has on the final beer.
I think my Porter is suffering from an infection due to too little yeast pitched and am now thinking that when using a characterful yeast like 1187 ringwood, pitching onto an entire yeast cake isnt the smart thing to do as it will subdue the character of the yeast which is the reason you use this yeast in the first place!
As for lagers (and trying to make this post remotely on topic) using an entire yeast cake probably makes sense as these yeasts tend to accentuate the maltiness of the beer rather than esters from the yeast.
Having said that, the first lager i made with a fresh 5L starter turned out better than the next 2 lagers which were dumped onto consecutive yeast cakes.....
Good post Doc and FWIW I agree with you. I also think it's a matter of how old / viable the yeast is. I used some fairly old Wyeast 2000 Budvar and made a nice Dortmunder with a 5 day lag. I repitched an Oktoberfest wort staight on top of it about 3 weeks later and the okkie turned out to be one of my best ever lagers...the lag was about 4 hours.
My favourite yeast I'd say I have a lag of just hours and I pitch a cold, small, but very active starter. I crash chill 1 litre of wort in the freezer, add the amount of slurry from a 2 litre starter (slurry having been stored under distilled water in the fridge), and pitch this whole new starter (which is around 10 to 15C) when the wort has finished chilling down to ferment temp. It takes around 6 or so hours for my ferment fridge to knock off the last degrees that the wort chiller can't, and by that stage the starter is going nuts. The original amount of slurry added to the new starter may have come from a new pack or it could be from a previous pitch.
You can pitch loads of less viable yeast, or you can pitch less yeast that is highly viable and still get a very healthy and active ferment.
Cheers, Ed
So the bartender says to the horse "Why the long face?"
Slightly OT but continuing on from my last post - i have a 1007 german ale yeast building up on the stir plate. A dusseldorf altbier is a hybrid, brewed at about 14 and then lagered. Having read the BYO article and thinking more about the fact i will be fermenting the Alt at the lowest end of the yeasts limits, i have built up a 4L starter for a 25L batch to ensure i have enough yeast.
I am learning so much about these little critters. In the past i probably haven't given yeast the respect it deserved and am now spending more time trying to pitch the right amount of yeast for the result i am aiming for.
Will be buying some liquid lager yeasts in the next week or 2 to make full use of the chilly weather at the moment. I haven't used a fermenting fridge this year so far! Brew with the weather rather than try to battle it - seems to be working for me.
drsmurto wrote:...Will be buying some liquid lager yeasts in the next week or 2 to make full use of the chilly weather at the moment. I haven't used a fermenting fridge this year so far! Brew with the weather rather than try to battle it - seems to be working for me.
Ditto - It's a steady 10C in the garage all day round at the moment here in chilly Canberra (currently 5, expecting a balmy 14C!) Combined with the soft clear water it's almost lager heaven!!
I'd say I have a lag of just hours and I pitch a cold, small, but very active starter. I crash chill 1 litre of wort in the freezer, add the amount of slurry from a 2 litre starter (slurry having been stored under distilled water in the fridge), and pitch this whole new starter (which is around 10 to 15C) when the wort has finished chilling down to ferment temp. It takes around 6 or so hours for my ferment fridge to knock off the last degrees that the wort chiller can't, and by that stage the starter is going nuts. The original amount of slurry added to the new starter may have come from a new pack or it could be from a previous pitch.