Style question...

[gibbocore]

...

Hi brewers, it seems i'm at a crossroads with what i want to brew, I love APAs but only for the hops, the malt doesnt seem to do it for me. So i think i need to sample some english ales, having never done so i need some pointers as to where i should start? Ideally at the end of all this i want to recreate an ale with big yet subtle malt flavour with that bright hop business going on from an APA.

Cheers in advance, i hope that made sense.

[rwh]

You could try the AE recipe for an ESB from Papazian's Complete Joy of Homebrewing. This is my metric/reduced boil version.

Lord Crouchbak’s Special Bitter

640g LDME in boil (4L)
3kg LDME @ flameout
270g JW medium crystal, cracked and steeped
19g Challenger 8.3%AA @ 60 minutes
25g Goldings @ 30 minutes
25g Goldings @ 15 minutes
wYeast 1968 (ESB) yeast

Then you can play with the hopping schedule later. But who knows, you might love the Goldings (I know I do)!

[Kevnlis]

I was gonna say the same as rwh, ESB is the way to go. WIth ESB my motto is "go big or go home"!

I would give you a recipe and some tips, but instead will wait for Doc (the resident expert) to find this post and tell you all about his obsession with ESBs and English beers in general.

I recently did a BIG ESB and fermented it with a belgian strain, this give me the best of all worlds, big complex malt flavours, huge bitterness and hop flavour/aroma and was all backed by the spicey esters of the belgian ale yeast. It is the best beer I have ever made without prior planning (I decided to brew an ESB and started 1 second later without making a recipe at all, then at the end realised the only yeast I had in stock was T-58).

[drsmurto]

DROOOOOL!

Not sure i am the resident expert but english beers, particularly ESBs are my passion and the reason i moved to AG.

Like you Gibbocore i started off my AG journey with several APAs and then decided to tackle ESBs once i had my system worked out.

Maris Otter is key. I add a touch of munich to boost it as the MO we get in Oz isnt the same as the floor malted stuff they get in the Old Dart.

Liquid yeast plays a huge part, you want fruity esters in an english ale that are out of place in APAs, lagers etc.

I am still playing around with various spec malts but have learnt very quickly that the aussie stuff is rubbish and bairds or weyermann is the way to go. It costs more but as with everything in life you only get what you pay for. As i mentioned in another thread, go easy on crystal malts. They can dominate a beer very easily.

If you want recipes i can send you a collection of beersmith files with the ones have done and a few in my to do list. ESBs, darks, ambers, browns, porters, stouts etc etc etc. PM me with your email address.

I strongly suggest you find a good bottle shop and start tasting the imported english ales available to get an idea of what makes an ESB and ESB.

To get you started here is my recipe for Timothy Taylors Landlord. It packs a good hop flavour punch and the aroma of styrian goldings is to die for. Its a tad over the top for an ESB......

20L, OG 1.045, IBU 35
3.75 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 92.59 %
0.30 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 7.41 %
45.00 gm Fuggles [4.40 %] (60 min) Hops 25.2 IBU
30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (20 min) Hops 10.4 IBU
30.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.70 %] (20 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs TTL (Wyeast #1469) [Starter 2000 ml] Yeast-Ale

You wont be able to get the 1469 yeast so sub it with another fruity english yeast such as 1187 or 1968. I mashed this at 65 to get a dry finish but you could up the malt backbone a touch by mashing at 66/67.

HTH
DrSmurto

[gibbocore]

WICKED

Thank you so much Mr Dr.

I'm starting to realise now that maybe APA's aren't my fav style, still love em, but my efforts to make beer always seem to steer me towards something like that recipe.

I'll give that a crack for my next brew.

Any suggestions for what i should look for at the bottle'o?

[drsmurto]

Have a look at the thread - palate calibration and the pics posted by TL and myself. If you can get your hands on any of these bottles you'll be a happy man.

Dan Murphys tend to only stock the big names - Fullers, Old Speckled Hen, Newcastle Brown Ale. A good start if you dont have a good bottle-o to go to.

[kram]

Keep your eyes out for this Gib

[gibbocore]

Do they have it at Dan Murphies, Kram?

[kram]

They should do. It's at 1st Choice definitely. If not, Dan usually has Hobgoblin and Fiddlers Elbow. Both great beers from Wychwood.

Just get the bottle images in your head, same from the palate thread. It's the easiest way to spot them.

[gibbocore]

Sweet.

Anyone know what vintage cellars are like for beers? I have a bunch of coles myser vouchers to waste.

[Boonie]

Have a look at the thread - palate calibration and the pics posted by TL and myself. If you can get your hands on any of these bottles you'll be a happy man.

Dan Murphys tend to only stock the big names - Fullers, Old Speckled Hen, Newcastle Brown Ale. A good start if you dont have a good bottle-o to go to.

Had the Newcastle Brown the other day along with an assortment of "Dearer Bottles" to boot.....ie ones with flavour........mmmm The Brown was nice, like the bottle shape too .

I should have taken a photo of all the bottles. From memory or lack thereof after, we had Blue Chimay, A Meantime Coffee Porter and Meantime Chocolate Beer, The Newcastle Brown, Sokoro or something like that in a can (asian beer...it was crap) and a few Czech beers that I cannot pronounce let alone spell.

My pick for best beer was between the Blue Chimay and the Meantime Coffee Porter. I am a big fan of that one.......sorry to get off topic....I have been very busy and I just had to tell someone

Cheers

Boonie

[kram]

Sweet.

Anyone know what vintage cellars are like for beers? I have a bunch of coles myser vouchers to waste.

The one down the road from me has started stocking the beers previously mentioned and alot of other imports. I think they're just competing with Spiros down the road as they stock quite alot of good beers, lots of 'organic' ones too.

[earle]

Anyone know what vintage cellars are like for beers? I have a bunch of coles myser vouchers to waste.

They won't be wasted if you spend them on the quality beers in the above posts. On the other hand if you spent them on VB ....

[gibbocore]

Found some



research comencing....

[kram]

So, have they knocked you off your APAs?

[Iron-Haggis]

Sweet.

Anyone know what vintage cellars are like for beers? I have a bunch of coles myser vouchers to waste.

Vintage Cellars have some pretty good beers. They have Redoak beers plus a few good UK and Belgium imports. Plus if you want to use some Coles and Myer vouchers for beer you could make a trip to a 1st Choice and use them there. They have a great selection and would be well worth the trip.

[gibbocore]

So, have they knocked you off your APAs?

Holy sh!t dude.

This is what i've been looking for for yonks, that big buiscuty malt flavour with the fresh fruity hoppiness. Simply wonderful.

You reckon its the english ale yeast that gives it the special malt flavour?

[Trough Lolly]

So, have they knocked you off your APAs?

Holy sh!t dude.

This is what i've been looking for for yonks, that big buiscuty malt flavour with the fresh fruity hoppiness. Simply wonderful.

You reckon its the english ale yeast that gives it the special malt flavour?

Mate, it's the yeast, the malt, the hops, the brewing process.....yes and the vibe!! If there was a quick and easy answer, we'd all be drinking this stuff and they'd be out of business!!
Most of these recipes are pretty simple - but it does take a bit of experimentation to get them "right" balance wise. And that's the real joy of brewing, IMHO - brewing a beer that you really like to drink time and time again!!

Cheers,
TL

[pixelboy]

You could try the AE recipe for an ESB from Papazian's Complete Joy of Homebrewing. This is my metric/reduced boil version.

Lord Crouchbak’s Special Bitter
............

wYeast 1968 (ESB) yeast

Looks tasty rwh.. whats the best substitute dry yeast? Im on a budget and sporadic schedule plus never get to brew back to back

Ross's Nottingham or Windsor?

[gibbocore]

So, have they knocked you off your APAs?

Holy sh!t dude.

This is what i've been looking for for yonks, that big buiscuty malt flavour with the fresh fruity hoppiness. Simply wonderful.

You reckon its the english ale yeast that gives it the special malt flavour?

Mate, it's the yeast, the malt, the hops, the brewing process.....yes and the vibe!! If there was a quick and easy answer, we'd all be drinking this stuff and they'd be out of business!!
Most of these recipes are pretty simple - but it does take a bit of experimentation to get them "right" balance wise. And that's the real joy of brewing, IMHO - brewing a beer that you really like to drink time and time again!!

Cheers,
TL

I wanted an easy answer lol

Guess i better get brewing then, do you know if the poms decoct? The stand out flavour for me was malt flavour, then hop flavour. And what sort of temps?