The Full Bottle on Sterilisation please

[andbrew]

In 'Pain in the Glass' thread it appears that I have acetobacter infection, probably in the bottles.

I have been emptying the bottles of this brew quite regularly in the last few days ( ) and after rinsing thoroughly filling them to the brim with boiling water, leaving overnight, then emptying. Is this effetive enough to kill any residual acetobacter do you reckon. Was then thinking of capping them and leaving them in the sun for a day (perth;23 degrees) and then storing before re-use.

Also, the infected beer has been chilled for a couple of days in the fridge and when I took them out the ring and scum seemed to have disappeared (and I stress this is BEFORE I started drinking) and tasted very good. What happened to my acetobacter?! The ring, scum was at top of each bottle a few days ago..............................?! Can chilling help it disappear or am I witnessing a miracle? Last week ring/scum tasted OK only. One week later after a couple of days chilling no ring/scum tastes really good. I'm happy but confused.

[BierMeister]

In 'Pain in the Glass' thread it appears that I have acetobacter infection, probably in the bottles.

I have been emptying the bottles of this brew quite regularly in the last few days ( ) and after rinsing thoroughly filling them to the brim with boiling water, leaving overnight, then emptying. Is this effetive enough to kill any residual acetobacter do you reckon. Was then thinking of capping them and leaving them in the sun for a day (perth;23 degrees) and then storing before re-use.

Your sanitation leaves something to be desired if the above is what you are doing prior to bottling and it will be one of the reasons you may have had a problem with this lot of beer. Using a sanitizer of some sort is a must really. If you want to be cheap about it then use unscented bleach and poor a cup into a laundry tub of warm water and soak the bottles for 20 mins (cleans as well as sanitizes in one hit). rinse with hot water and your ready to bottle. filling with water and leaving in the sun wont cut it. Some bacteria thrive in sun light and will laugh at your attempts to kill them with it. If you boiled the bottles for 10 mins it may kill most bacteria, but just filling them with it and leaving it to cool may just help some bacteria grow. See this link for other ways of sanitizing your bottles/equip http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-3.html

Also, the infected beer has been chilled for a couple of days in the fridge and when I took them out the ring and scum seemed to have disappeared (and I stress this is BEFORE I started drinking) and tasted very good. What happened to my acetobacter?! The ring, scum was at top of each bottle a few days ago..............................?! Can chilling help it disappear or am I witnessing a miracle? Last week ring/scum tasted OK only. One week later after a couple of days chilling no ring/scum tastes really good. I'm happy but confused.

See http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21.html

[homebrewer79]

Also, the infected beer has been chilled for a couple of days in the fridge and when I took them out the ring and scum seemed to have disappeared

I have had an acetobacter in my bottles before and leaving them in the fridge did nothing to help, I'm not saying it isn't acetobater but I am inclined to suggest it may be a yeast ring that fluctuates because of the coldness (for want of a better word) in the fridge. This is just an uneducated suggestion really.

Your sanitation leaves something to be desired if the above is what you are doing prior to bottling and it will be one of the reasons you may have had a problem with this lot of beer. Using a sanitizer of some sort is a must really. If you want to be cheap about it then use unscented bleach and poor a cup into a laundry tub of warm water and soak the bottles for 20 mins (cleans as well as sanitizes in one hit). rinse with hot water and your ready to bottle. filling with water and leaving in the sun wont cut it. Some bacteria thrive in sun light and will laugh at your attempts to kill them with it. If you boiled the bottles for 10 mins it may kill most bacteria, but just filling them with it and leaving it to cool may just help some bacteria grow. See this link for other ways of sanitizing your bottles/equip http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-3.html

And what he said

[andbrew]

Thanks.
Yes, I have used sanitizer (sodium perc.) in addition to boiling water for sanitisation. More interested in sterilisation than sanitisation for just these bottles (which may have had an acetobacter infection in them).

Still (happily) confused as to the disappearment of the ring/scum after chilling. HB79; it'd be great if it wasn't an acetobacter but as the scum (in addition to the ring) was there I guessed it couldn't be yeast. Either way, they are still tasting fine now!

[BierMeister]

More interested in sterilisation than sanitisation for just these bottles (which may have had an acetobacter infection in them).

For sterilisation I refer you again to Howtobrew.com by John Palmer. Its a good read and informative for beginner to advanced brewer. I would suggest either a strong bleach solution (hard for the bacteria to survive when their cell walls are chemically ripped apart. Also don't go too crazy, just 10-15ml per litre water) or sterilisation by heat. Bottles in oven at 180C for an hour of so will kill everything. Palmer covers temps and times in his online manual.

Yes, I have used sanitizer (sodium perc.) in addition to boiling water for sanitisation.

I'd be careful with sodium percarbonate as a one stop cleaner/sanitizer as, and I quote "Sodium percarbonate is sodium carbonate reacted with hydrogen peroxide...(and) ...will effectively sanitize surfaces and containers that are already clean. As with all sanitizers, the effectiveness of hydrogen peroxide as a sanitizing agent is comprimised by organic soil." In other words it does a good job as long as there is nothing from the last beer stuck to the surface of the bottle for the bacteria to hide under. This goes for most sanitizers I guess and is something to remember for us all. I've read your other post and am also not sure you had an infection or if so it is in a minor/early phase. Without seeing it first hand I would only be guessing, but I did have a batch once that had an oily (I guess you could call it a scum) at the top of the bottle with a ring though it wasn't white or all that thick and it went away once cooled and the beer didn't taste bad. Anway as long as it still tastes good, cheers and drink up

[andbrew]

Thanks for that info.

I'm not convinved that the bottles have acetobacter in them but I'll use the bleach as you suggested as a precaution.

Some yrs ago I used to use sodium metabisuplhate but I got the impression that the sodium perc. was safer. But i guess they're both for sanitisation only anyway. Sill got some (sodium met) in the shed.............

i'll read the Palmer in full soon; ta for the link.

And I'll keep drinking my wheat beer until it tastes funny/I keel over.............

Cheers

[BierMeister]

[Chris]

Can we PLEASE stop calling it sterilisation!

You are sanitising the bottles. Dogger would have a fit!

[BierMeister]

More interested in sterilisation than sanitisation for just these bottles (which may have had an acetobacter infection in them).

Can we PLEASE stop calling it sterilisation!

You are sanitising the bottles. Dogger would have a fit!

Chris, I think Andbrew knows the difference and makes the distinction as above.

[Chris]

Short of autoclaving, I really don't think you are going to get sterilisation.

[BierMeister]

Oh ye of little faith.

[Trough Lolly]

I use Sodium Percarbonate (Home brand Napisan) to wash bottles and kegs with and then I sanitise with Iodophor or Star San. The important part is to clean before you even think about trying to sanitise any surface...

Cheers,
TL

[andbrew]

Hi Chris

Sorry if the question offends you (humbly offers you a possibly infected wheat beer through cyberspace to apologise )

The gist of my question being:-
"what is the most effective practical thing that I can do 'as close to sterilisation as possible' within the confines of a home set-up to rid my bottles of any lingering possibility of acetobacter or similar infection remaining in aforementioned bottles ";
jeez don't know why I didn't phrase it in that way to start......................

...............oh and I think I got the answer from others on this forum anyway, thanks.

Cheers

'Acetobacter; it doesn't taste too bad and improves the clarity of one's questions'

[Chris]

Ummm, there was no offence taken... hence the " "

I'll still accept the wheat beer though

[andbrew]

OK;emailled it to you. Cheers!