Pilsner

[Timmsy]

I fond this of aussiehomebrewer and I was thinking of giving this sucker a whirl to get my brewing fix as im waiting for my AG equipment to be finished and to but a burner. I was just wandering can i substitute the liquid extract for more grain?? I am wanting to purchase the ingridiants this week so any help would be fantastic!

Ingredients:
2kg grain
2.5kg liquid malt extract
Hop pellets
liquid yeast - using an ale yeast instead of a true lager yeast to simplify the process

Mashed for 60min at 66 deg. Brewing efficiency est = 66% Est boil volume = 7-8L. Extract added for last 15min of 60 min boil.


I'm thinking something along the lines of:

1.8kg Pilsner malt (Weyermann)
0.2kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine
1.5kg Extra Pale Liquid Extract (e.g morgans blendmasters range extra pale extract)
1kg Lager extract (e.g morgans blendmaster range lager extract)

21g 7.60% AA Northern Brewer (60min)
30g 4.0%AA Saaz (60min)
30g 4.0%AA Saaz (40min)
30g 4.0%AA Saaz (20min)

S 1-89 Swiss Lager Yeast

OG est = 1.052
FG est = 1.014
Colour est = 11.4 EBC
Est IBU = 40.3

[Kevnlis]

Looks good, but I would drop the carapils and just use 2 kilos of pilsner malt at 68-70C instead of 66C. Same result less stuffin around

[drsmurto]

Agree with Kev.

Are you short on northern brewer? If not, shift the 40 min addition of saaz to flameout (dont waste the stuff) and adjust 60 min addition to keep IBU at 40. Not a fan of 40 min additions and i doubt Kev is either (unless he has been taught otherwise recently?)

[Kevnlis]

No I am still a firm believer that all additions should be made at least 60 min before the end of the boil, or within the last 20 min of the boil.

I have yet to hear a good argument for the 30-40 min additions...

[Timmsy]

So add Northern Brewer to the 60min to acheive 40 ibus and drop the 40mins saaz to flame out?
Also was thinking at droping the liquid extract and using more grain. Is this possible and what type and amount should i use?

[Kevnlis]

Why not drop the extract all together and use 5 kilos of pilsner malt? Its the same amount of work for what will most likely be a much better result. If you really want to use some extract I would drop the 1.5 kilos of extra light malt and use 2 more kilos of Pilsner.

[Timmsy]

Im just doing a partial at the moment mate but i might think about that. I will play around with recipe when i get home on beersmith

[Timmsy]

Also just curious other then Northern Brewer could i use Green Bullet whole flowers for bittering or wouldnt it work aswell in a Pilsner style??

http://www.beerbelly.com.au/hops.html

[James L]

i would try and stick to hops for that style of beer (german beer/german hops), but its totally up to you. its all about experimenting anyways... when i did my first ever partial, i did a pilsner using about the same ingredient that you have listed, but i used perle instead of NB. Turned out great. Not sure about Green bullet as i have never used it...

Just make sure you mash for 60 minutes minimum at 66C.. otherwise the beer will end up hazy, and it will take about 6 weeks before it clears. There is no reason why you cant mash for a little longer if you dont think that the grain has fully converted but you should be ok. Also If you have a decent enough crush, and you mash for 60 minutes, there is no reason why you wont get a higher extraction efficiency than 66%.

Also for pilsner styles, i personally wouldnt go over 35 IBUs. if anything for a pilsner with an SG of 1052 aim for and SG about half of 52.. so about 26.. just means its going to be nice and balanced without too much hop bitterness in your face and not too much maltiness either.. but as i said before, its all about experimenting. maybe meet somewhere in the middle with about 30-34.

I am currenty fermenting a pilsner with all super alpha in it (12%aa) .. i'll tell you how it turns out...

[Kevnlis]

Just make sure you mash for 60 minutes minimum at 66C.. otherwise the beer will end up hazy, and it will take about 6 weeks before it clears.

Why? My last pilsner was fully converted after ~15-20 minutes at 69C (negative iodine test). Came out clear as a bell after 2 weeks of fermentation and 2 days of crash lagering at -1C. The efficiency of the mash was something like 85%.

Temperature really only matters to the amount of each sugar you get in the final product, not to clarity and speed of conversion (provided you are somewhere in the range of ~60-74C of course).

I do agree 40IBUs may be a bit high for an OG of 1.052 but the high gravity boil and he adding unhopped malt extract will probably mean he will get something more like 35 IBUs anyway.

I have used Green Bullet as an aroma hop in a Belgian and had great results. I don't have any experience using it as a bittering hop for pilsners but so no reason it wouldn't be a good choice (it is likened to Styrian I believe).

[Trough Lolly]

No I am still a firm believer that all additions should be made at least 60 min before the end of the boil, or within the last 20 min of the boil.

I have yet to hear a good argument for the 30-40 min additions...

...Um, steeped grain and extract brewers often do a 30 minute boil / hop addition when they use a sufficiently bitter kit?

Cheers,
TL

[Kevnlis]

I think you missed the point on that one TL...

[Trough Lolly]

I think you missed the point on that one TL...

I dunno...I agree that most brews I do nowadays don't have a 30 or 40 minute hop addition during a 1hr boil, but that's because I think before I make my hop schedule - and try to avoid wasting low alpha acid / high beta acid aroma and flavouring hops for bittering purposes (this is one reason why I tend not to bitter my lagers with Saaz) and conversely, try to avoid using high alpha bittering hops for the flavouring and aroma additions (eg, Chinook).

I acknowledge that you most likely used a 1hr boil as the context for your statement, but all of the small boil brewers out there may have been reluctant to agree with your statement. When I was a steeped grains and kit brewer, I was happily making quite drinkable pale ales with a Coopers Pale ale kit, some extract and steeped grains and a 30 minute boil with an addition of fresh amarillo hops. I found the 30 minute mini boil did quite a good job at adding a decent flavour hit to the final product along with a notable additional bitterness to balance the additional malt extract and steeped liquor that went into the fermenter.

Cheers,
TL

[drsmurto]

Fair point TL but Kevs respone was a direct query by me as to why, in the first thread, he has a 60 min and a 40 min addition of low AA% saaz. Like you, i would be saving the saaz for flavour/aroma and using a clean bittering hop like Perle or NB.

I also did 30 min boils when doing kits and steeped grain. Even scored a few prizes along the way for them. Yet to reach the lofty heigts of a best in show trophy with my AGs but am working on it!

For the record, my irish stout got a 2nd in SABSOSA and my Alt also scored a 2nd!

[Trough Lolly]

Yeah, fair enough...I'll pull my head in - sorry Kev. As I mentioned, I tend to avoid mid boil additions anyway.

Cheers,
TL

[Timmsy]

I went for something real different while i was talking to Wayne at beerbelly. Put it down yesterday and its in the fridge bubbling away real nice. Cant wait to see how it will turn out

4.5kgs of Pilsner Grain
.250 Crystal
25grms Green Bullet Flowers @60mins
15grms Bsaaz Flowers @ 30mins
10grms Bsaaz Flowers @ flameout
2 x Saflager Yeast pitched @ 24 degrees
Fridge set @ 8 degrees

I will rack after 2 weeks and let ferment out for another 2 weeks then rack into a cube and cold condion for another 2 weeks. Can i leave the brew in the secondary rather then racking into the cube and just drop the fridge temp to say 1 or 2 degrees for the 2 weeks to condition?

Real different type of pilsner with NZ hops but hay what the hell it sounds real nice.

[Kevnlis]

Yeah, fair enough...I'll pull my head in - sorry Kev. As I mentioned, I tend to avoid mid boil additions anyway.

Cheers,
TL

It is alright TL, I agree that it is not worth doing a 60 min min boil on a few litres of steeped wort.

Like Doc said I was responding in the mannor of doing a full batch 60 min (or more) boil where it is IMHO a waste of hops to make an addition between the 60 and 20 min marks.

Recipe looks good timmsy, B Saaz is a great hop and that should be an excellent brew!

[Trough Lolly]

I went for something real different while i was talking to Wayne at beerbelly. Put it down yesterday and its in the fridge bubbling away real nice. Cant wait to see how it will turn out

4.5kgs of Pilsner Grain
.250 Crystal
25grms Green Bullet Flowers @60mins
15grms Bsaaz Flowers @ 30mins
10grms Bsaaz Flowers @ flameout
2 x Saflager Yeast pitched @ 24 degrees
Fridge set @ 8 degrees

I will rack after 2 weeks and let ferment out for another 2 weeks then rack into a cube and cold condion for another 2 weeks. Can i leave the brew in the secondary rather then racking into the cube and just drop the fridge temp to say 1 or 2 degrees for the 2 weeks to condition?

Real different type of pilsner with NZ hops but hay what the hell it sounds real nice.

Looks good Timmsy - a simple yet effective recipe....what was the A/A of the Green Bullet flowers?

Cheers,
TL

[Timmsy]

I went for something real different while i was talking to Wayne at beerbelly. Put it down yesterday and its in the fridge bubbling away real nice. Cant wait to see how it will turn out

4.5kgs of Pilsner Grain
.250 Crystal
25grms Green Bullet Flowers @60mins
15grms Bsaaz Flowers @ 30mins
10grms Bsaaz Flowers @ flameout
2 x Saflager Yeast pitched @ 24 degrees
Fridge set @ 8 degrees

I will rack after 2 weeks and let ferment out for another 2 weeks then rack into a cube and cold condion for another 2 weeks. Can i leave the brew in the secondary rather then racking into the cube and just drop the fridge temp to say 1 or 2 degrees for the 2 weeks to condition?

Real different type of pilsner with NZ hops but hay what the hell it sounds real nice.

Looks good Timmsy - a simple yet effective recipe....what was the A/A of the Green Bullet flowers?

Cheers,
TL

Thanks.

I got the hops from beerbelly and i beleive the AA is 13.6%.

It is bubble away real nice at the moment.

Next brew will be your steam beer that you postesd hopefully my 1st AG if not another partial. Im hanging to get my gear back...