Strange Airlock Situation

[svyturys]

Firstly, let me thank O & G for their great site.
Following the advice trail I bought two Cooper's kits. Both set off on their maiden voyages yesterday. One was straight "out of the box", (Australian Lager, Cooper's yeast and Brewing sugar)...I maintained its temperature at around 22...now this morning I find that the water has been almost pushed out of the primary airlock and has filled the secondary one to the brim/top of the lock. Is this normal?
The second brew is loaded with saflager yeast and the dextrose/maltodextrin Coopers pack. I've kept that at about 14 -16 degrees. It hasn't moved yet and I understand that it'll take longer to get itself active. (There is a fine condensation on the lid and white sediment on the bottom so I'm not worried.)

Cheers

[earle]

By your description I assume you have the s-shaped airlock with two bulbs connected with a small u at the bottom. If so, having the water pushed into the bulb further from the fermenter is normal. This is the carbon dioxide gas produced by the yeast pushing out through the airlock, it means you have a good seal on your fermenter.

The other sounds OK as well. While 14-16 is still a bit high for a proper lager, lager yeast will take longer to get going and won't be as vigorous in producing CO2 as coopers yeast. The condensation is a sign that something is happening.

[svyturys]

Thanks for your help. I'm dropping the temp for the lager...just a matter of opening the window.
The airlock levels have moved back a little so that seems good evidence of activity. You were spot on with the style of lock.
I remember that when I did some HB about 15 years ago the lock was full of bubbles and a centre of much activity...probably due to a different design and too high a temperature. The outcome was one of those brews that "tasted like homebrew"!!!
A bit offputting...hoping for something more positive this time.
Thanks again and cheers.

[svyturys]

WHAAAAAARGH!!!!!
I got up this morning and I've found that the airlock in question has blown like Vesuvius. Foam and liquid all over the top of the fermenter....definitely "bubbling". I put some boiled water back into the lock, but the question is whether contamination has occured. The fermenter was maintained at the bottom end of the temperature scale as recommended by Coopers i.e. 20 to 22 C.
Is there anything I should do?

[homebrewer79]

It's pretty unlikely to get infected, you've topped up the air lock again so she'll be fine

[gibovski]

Strange that the wort would bubble over through the airlock. I've had it happen once before but I think it was a bit warm... (turned out good in the end)

Contamination is extremely unlikely considering how much CO2 you were producing. All that gas pushing out any hole it can find makes it almost impossible for anything to get it. Besides if something did get in it sounds like your yeast has got a stronghold... All will be fine...

[svyturys]

Thanks for your assurance and help, guys.
I got home just now...no water in the airlock...topped it up and 5 minutes later there's foam a plenty on the exhaust outlet and a great big "glug, glug" sound that I can hear 3 metres away despite the fact that I'm sitting next to a humming computer!
All the water has been pushed into the secondary chamber again...all this activity is happening at 16C.
Guess I'll have to monitor the levels closely for the next couple of days.
Cheers

[Trough Lolly]

All's good - you have a strong vigorous ferment. No need to be concerned at this stage. The yeast is having a ball with all the simple/short chain sugars that you used.

Cheers,
TL

[svyturys]

Well, well, well,
The very quiet brew that didn't bubble at all, (checked for leaks ..none to be found) has turned up a SP of 1012 on two consecutive days. This is s-23 lager yeast. Fine bubbles in the beer and ...it TASTES like beer, yeasty but it is beer.
I took the reading at 12C.
apparently there is some temperature compensation to be made so the actual SG could be 1011 or 1010.
Meanwhile the straight Coopers brew is STILL gurgling away at 18C...slowly but still gurgling.
Thanks for all your support so far...it seems to paying off.

[Trough Lolly]

No probs - the three keys to making a good lager are:
Fresh Ingredients,
Temperature control, and
Patience...

Cheers,
TL

[svyturys]

OK, My two brews have entered into an ironic situation which challenges preconceptions.
Cooper's kit Australian Lager with s-23, maintained at 12C (with the exception of a 16C bump 9 days ago) has fermented as quietly as a Swiss Nun in cloisters. A wiff of sulphur on that day was about the only indication that things were going well.
(Condensation, white block of yeast at the bottom and foaming head not withstanding) Now this little lady has provided consistent SG readings for five days...and tastes like beer...so at day 12 could be considered ready for bottling. The airlock is clear and I have not witnessed a SINGLE bubble.
Meanwhile, the Coopers kit, (Australian lager) using the coopers' yeast pushed the airlock to extremes and then on day three erupted like Vesuvius and started a party that would put an English Soccer crowd to shame is STILL bubbling away.
I thought that s-23 at low temperatures took a lot longer than a kit yeast.
Any comments?

[svyturys]

I forgot to mention that the 'soccer crowd" has been maintained at 18C with a bump to 22C on day 3.
As an aside, the fermenter is dirty on the inside and the top. (What would you expect from party animal yeasts?)
The other fermenter is clean as a whistle, still condensed under the lid.
Cheers

[Trough Lolly]

Lager yeast = bottom fermenting
Ale yeast = top / surface fermenting

Cheers,
TL

[svyturys]

Understood TL, but the question is why did the bottom fermenting yeast finish its job well ahead of the top fermenter?
The Coopers booklet says 4 -7 days to finish fermentation. At day 12 the ale yeast is still going.
I was under the impression that bottom fermenting yeasts took a lot longer to do the job.
Cheers
Svyturys

[homebrewer79]

The Coopers booklet says 4 -7 days to finish fermentation. At day 12 the ale yeast is still going.

Those ferment times are going by the assumption that you are fermenting at their suggested temps, which I would assume would be around 27 deg? The lower temp you ferment at the longer it will take

[svyturys]

My ferment temps were as follows,
coopers yeast from the kit 18C (With an accidental bump to 24C for a few hours on day 3.

S-23 at 12C with an accidental bump to 16C for a few hours on day 3.
The only difference in the brewing method was that I stirred the wort a lot longer for the coopers yeast. It is still bubbling today, which is day 13.

[Trough Lolly]

The bubbling may be due to CO2 leaving solution. Fermentation may have concluded a couple of days ago and a temperature raise will push some CO2 out of solution, giving you the impression that fermentation is continuing. This is one reason why you never rely solely on the airlock to indicate fermentation.

Different strains (especially lager v ale yeast) will behave differently due to a myriad reasons, including; viability, % of dextrins in the wort, temp, available O2 at the start of the fermentation, available FAN's etc etc...

Cheers,
TL

[svyturys]

Thanks, Trough,
I've bottled now and both taste like beer. The extra CO2 could have come from my extended stirring of that brew. (8mins, don't ask me why...???) The FG of the of the Coopers yeast brew was a little lower than the safale so it will be interesting to see how they taste head to head.
Time now to to rattle the pots and pans and get the next two off and running. A Coopers original pale ale and a wheat beer.
Thanks heaps for your help and support through the Newbies' " Paranoia Pain Period".
Svyt.

[Hunter]

I did a Coopers Bitter can that did that Mt Vesuvius thing. It was my second brew i ever put on, and I accidently only filled to 20 litres (recipe called for 23). When it started blowin wort out the airlock,I freaked out, thinking, "oh no infection of some sort". It eventually settled down, and I got a reading of 1004, Bottled, and 6 weeks later was drinking an extremely delicious beer!

[svyturys]

I am now ready to bottle my next two brews. Neither had ANY airlock action yet they appear healthy and well. I tested for leakage and there does not appear to be any, whatsoever. maybe the clingwrap guys are right. The entire lid and airlock thing is just a nuisance and a bit of a distraction.
Cheers
Svyturys