General homebrew discussion, tips and help on kit and malt extract brewing, and talk about equipment. Queries on sourcing supplies and equipment should go in The Store.
H E L P!!! My last two brews have tasted revolting! The first was a Coopers Draught and now a PA (K&K only with BE2 and no additions). I've made 41 brews so far with not one infection and haven't changed my procedure one bit. Everything thoroughly cleaned and sanitized as usual, and fermented and conditioned between 20-22 degrees C.
With the first nasty one I thought it may have occurred after bottling, but I've just bottled the latest brew on the weekend and it's got the same taste straight out of the fermenter. Hard to explain - I would say it tastes a bit like sour milk, maybe a bit coppery/medicinal, but OH reckons it reminds him of some sort of "cheap lolly". It's carbonated fine and has a good head - just undrinkable! Has anyone else had problems with Coopers kits lately (can I blame Coopers??) Any suggestions? Anna
drsmurto wrote:Have a read of these sections of Palmers 'How to Brew' - Link and Link
Metallic or kit twang could be old extract.
Medicinal is often caused by chlorine based sanitisers (no z Anna) not being rinsed properly.
Doh! You got me Doc! ("Z") Thanks for the links. The taste I'm getting seems to be a combination of a few of the tastes described by Palmer. I'm going to put the blame squarely on Coopers - "kit twang" as you call it. Must check use-by dates in future. I put a new CPA on yesterday with Morgan's LME and S-04 instead of BE2 and kit yeast, so I'll wait and see what this comes out like. I made sure I was extra careful with sanitation and rinsed everything in boiled water as well, just in case it was the sanitiSer. Keeping fingers crossed!
To make life easier, look at using a no-rinse sanitiser, if you have not done so already.
All you need do with those is to make sure your equipment is clean, and prior to use, swirl your no-rinse sanitiser throught it so it coats all sufaces.
Leave it for a few minutes to do its work, and then just upend it and drain off the sanitiser. No need to do anything else. The little residual which remains is no problem. And no more rinsing with water etc. Easy.
I've used hydrogen-peroxide as a no-rinse sanitiser, but mostly use iodophor. You should be able to buy iodophor at most good HB shops. You only need to use 1ml per litre, so a bottle lasts for a long time. Starsan is another alternative, just as easy.
I still bottle all my brews, and I line up all my bottles in a block on a bench. With a spray bottle of sanitiser I spray the tops of all the bottles, and then give a good few squirts into the neck of each bottle. I swirl the sanitiser around to make sure it contacts all the surfaces, leave it for a few minutes, drain it, and I'm ready for priming.
Hi Warra! Thanks for outlining your method. I have been using bleach for my fermenter - filling it with cold water, add half cup bleach, leaving for at least one hour, then rinsing with boiled water. No big deal. For my bottles I have a bottle washer thingemy and use Milton baby bottle steriliser, which claims to be no-rinse also (12 ml in 1 litre of water). I dip the top of the bottle in the mix, then I just push the bottle down on the spout and it squirts solution up into the bottle. I then put the bottles to drain on my bottle tree and leave to dry for an hour or so. So there shouldn't be a problem. I've done it this same way for 41 brews and never had a problem before, so I reckon it's all Mr Cooper's fault (or maybe Woolies for keeping old kits) !!
Not being able to drink the last two brews has had a very bad outcome for me - I've been stealing OH's VB and (shock, horror!) I think I'm developing a taste for the stuff !!!
Anna, I'm going to go slightly against the grain and suggest that what you're tasting is not kit twang. You've done 41 brews without noticing twang before then get it in two different brews in a row? Seems a pretty big coincidence to me. Your noted "sour milk" flavour is worrying and probably a bigger problem than the metallic part.
I noticed you haven't mentioned a santising step for your fermenter. Was this an omission or do you actually only wash with bleach, rinse then put your brew in? Ideally this should be a two step process: cleaning/sterilising (which is the step you're doing already) then sanitising.
Thanks Bum. You could be right about the infection, but I certainly do sanitise the fermenters - like I said, after cleaning them with Neopink, I fill them with cold water, pour in half a cup of bleach and leave for a few hours (sometimes overnight, sometimes for at least one hour). Then rinse with boiling water.
The half cup of bleach with cold water for an hour then rinse with water is the method I use for my fermenters. I only blast them out with water after brewing then leave to dry.
On potential infection source overlooked by lots of brewers is the tap. I had a brew become infected due to vinegar flies and a leaking tap. The subsequent brew was then infected by the tap. Now I pull the tap apart and soak in bleach after every brew. Problem solved.
You could be on to something there Earle. Of course, I do pull the tap apart and thoroughly clean the thread and everything, and then chuck it in the fermenter with the other stuff to be sanitised, BUT come to think of it, both the offending brews were standing in a bathtub of cold water for the duration of the fermentation. I usually spray inside the tap with Milton before bottling, but I think I may have neglected that step for these brews! I wonder.... The next brew should prove it - I've since changed my method of cooling to the "collapsible cooler" method suggested by Syturvys in another thread, so the tap isn't under water anymore. (Must remember to spray the tap thoroughly before bottling too...) Thanks for your input! Anna
Each to their own of course, but I think bleach is a commonly used sanitiser. Needs thorough rinsing but its easy to tell by smelling if you havn't rinsed enough.
Plus I've been using bleach for the last 41 brews with no problem (haven't even been rinsing until the last few, just draining well - and oddly enough, it was only after I started rinsing that I began having the taste problems! Maybe the chlorine was actually improving the taste LOL! ) I reckon it's either an infection or, like the Doc suggested, old extract. My problem now is what do I do with the 60 bottles of rotten beer (even though OH swears he will drink it regardless! ) Anna
Anna, I too use bleach(homebrand with no detergent or scent) and then rinse with boiling water and have never had a problem. However, I think I know the (Band-Aid) taste produced by the bleach/chlorine because I've experienced it when the local council has increased the dosage in the local water supply after heavy rain or in dry spells to kill off algae blooms. I now use a Brita on the laundry tap for my brews. You can boil it off if you can be bothered with the effort and have a large enough pot. You need to plan ahead to let the water cool overnight before use. So not sure what water you're using for water, but thought I'd throw it out there.
Anna,
I'm another bleach user. I hose out the fermenter then thoroughly clean with (Chux) cloth, bleach and tap water. Inspect the fermenter for any slight "brown" specks and then let the sun do its job. 24 hours outside and the bleach smell has gone.
On brew day I wash out again with tap water and sterilised Chux super wipes. (Sterilised by putting wet cloths in the microwave on full for a couple of minutes). I then spray the inside with hydrogen peroxide solution and run a toothbrush over the tap threads. Place upside down on a fresh teatowel till ready to fill.
OK it's a bit anal but not a difficult procedure and doesn't use a lot of water.
Good to know there are other bleach users out there. Interesting point about the extra chlorine in the water Hirns. I notice you live in Yeppoon QLD and I know QLD's water is notorious for the chlorine taste (especially Brisbane!). We certainly have had some heavy rain lately but I haven't noticed any chlorine taste in the tap water. The two brews I have on at the moment should be a clue, as I've been extra, extra anal about sanitation. I know some people save "buy bottled water", "boil the water" etc, but that kind of defeats the purpose of home brewing, right? Anna
I don't think that boiling the water would defeat the point of homebrewing. I always boil my water (I have a large stockpot that I got at Big W for $12) and then transfer it, still boiling, to a cube (again; Big W). I then drop in a campden tablet and let that do it's cooling thing overnight for use the next day.
Doesn't take long and I've noticed a difference in my brew's taste since introducing that procedure.
Anna
Anna