yucky brews!

[Anna]

Campden tablet - why? Doesn't boiling the water kill the bugs? I can't imagine myself lifting a huge pot of water on and off the stove, since I'm only 5 foot high and pretty damn weak! D.a.n.g.e.r.o.u.s!!! (Yeah, I know, OH could help, but he never seems to be around at brew time - only drinking time!).

[bullfrog]

Well I'm certainly no chemist, so perhaps the Doc can shed more light on this than I, but most water is treated with a chlorine derivative that doesn't get fully removed by boiling -- at least that's what I read somewhere. Adding the campden tablet just makes sure that it all gets cleaned up.

It has worked well for every time except when I tried to use a cheap funnel to assist in transferring from the pot to the cube and the tubing on the underside of it started to melt, leaving behind a distinct melted plastic flavour in the water. Lesson learnt, funnel binned.

[Anna]

Well, according to Google: "Campden Tablets - Potassium Metabisuphite - Made from potassium metabisulphite and a convenient way to accurately sulphite wine. Inhibits harmful bacteria and helps retard oxidation. Add in primary fermenting stage and wait 24 hours before adding yeast. Crush and dissolving in water or wine. Releases sulphur dioxide, which acts as a sterilant and antioxident. Each tablet contains 550 mg of active sulphite/tablet. May be used at each racking also to retard oxidation."

So... would certainly kill any bugs left over from the boiling, but as for killing the chlorine taste?? (assuming that's what you meant).

Still, if it works for you..... Anna

[drsmurto]

Bullfrog is correct, boiling water only removes free chlorine, not chloramine which is added to mains water.

Campden tablets which are either sodium or potassium metabisulphite 'neutralise' the chloramine.

Boiling water kills most bugs.

I used orthophosphoric acid to sanitise. I dilute it to ~300ppm. At this concentration its no rinse. Its the basic concept of Starsan.

Whilst bleach works it requires rinsing. If you rinse with tap water then you are rinsing a chlorine based sanitiser with a chlorinated water!

The cost of no rinse sanitisers tends to put people off but when you work out how long it lasts its a much more cost effective way of sanitising and its much more user friendly.

The other option is bleach plus vinegar which, when used at the correct dilution ratio becomes a no rinse sanitiser. I've never tried this but know others who do.

[Anna]

I knew you couldn't resist that one Doc! But, unless I've misunderstood, Bullfrog is using the Campden tablets in the water he makes the brew with, not just for sanitising.

[drsmurto]

I knew you couldn't resist that one Doc! But, unless I've misunderstood, Bullfrog is using the Campden tablets in the water he makes the brew with, not just for sanitising.

Correct - he is using them to treat the water.

I use them for sanitising. I add them to fresh apple juice when making cider to kill off any wild yeast. I added some to the strawberries before racking a beer onto them.

Its a multi-purpose chemical!

[Anna]

Living and learning!!

[earle]

Do you need to be careful about the Campden affecting your yeast?

[Anna]

Well, as quoted above, the Google reference I found did say: "Wait 24 hours before pitching yeast". (I still wonder about adding extra chemicals to the brew - isn't that what HB is supposed to be avoiding?)

[drsmurto]

Do you need to be careful about the Campden affecting your yeast?

If you add yeast at the same time as the campden tablets then yes and the SO2 generated will at the very least stun the yeast if not kill it.

You either rinse after use or leave it for 24 hours.

[earle]

Well, as quoted above, the Google reference I found did say: "Wait 24 hours before pitching yeast".

Thanks, saw that but was after a bit of an explanation behind it.

I still wonder about adding extra chemicals to the brew - isn't that what HB is supposed to be avoiding?)

Don't say that to someone who alters there water chemistry e.g. Burtonising water for an english pale ale.

If you add yeast at the same time as the campden tablets then yes and the SO2 generated will at the very least stun the yeast if not kill it.

You either rinse after use or leave it for 24 hours.

I think I get it now. The campden neutralises the chloramine which is not removed by boiling. The sulphur dioxide released by the campden tablet will dissappate after about 24 hours.

[Anna]

Very succinct Earle!

[hirns]

On tap Brita, $35 from Big W and each cartridge treats about 400L, one of the best homebrew investments I've made!

[billybushcook]

Interesting read guys, Sorry , & GIRLS!

Years ago, I was led to believe (wrongly) that heat would remove all traces of chlorides,

Always a good day when you can learn something new each day, Thx.

Mick.

[drsmurto]

Sorry to be pedantic Mick but there is a huge difference between chlorine (Cl2) and chloride (Cl-).

One is a yellow gas that has a distinctive smell, the other is an ion that has no smell.

Boiling water removes chlorine but not chloride.

Sodium metabisulphite removes chlorine and chloramine but not chloride.

I doubt anyone has the ability to remove chloride in their home.

You need either a reverse osmosis setup or an ion exchange column. You could distil water to remove it but the effort is huge for no real advantage.

Chloride is water is not an issue for either drinking or brewing in the concentration found in any mains water in this country.

Thus endeth the chemistry lesson

[Bigbott]

G,day all,

The last 3 brews we did we used my mates bore water ,

Yeh i know what your thinking !! but i tell you its better than the town water & dam cold
perfect for getting the temps down we done 2 largers & 1 ales & after topping up to 23lts
it was sitting on about 18 deg !!

Where yet to taste them there been in for 3 weeks on Sunday i will take a reading then
turn the tempmate down to 3 deg & CC both for another week,

Cant wait to gas & try them.





Cheers Rob.

[earle]

When you say bore water most city folk would think of artesian bores. That would make for terrible brews. We have too much calcium in our underground water here so I use our rainwater (unfiltered ) for my brews.

[Bigbott]

earle,

Na just your std under ground Bore water,its better than rain water to !

Most of the bores around our area are very good drinking quality hey,

Have you seen that latest add on Tv the Boags beer one thats what its like
pure Gold he he .






Cheers Rob.

[hirns]

Sorry to be pedantic Mick but there is a huge difference between chlorine (Cl2) and chloride (Cl-).

One is a yellow gas that has a distinctive smell, the other is an ion that has no smell.

Boiling water removes chlorine but not chloride.

Sodium metabisulphite removes chlorine and chloramine but not chloride.

I doubt anyone has the ability to remove chloride in their home.

You need either a reverse osmosis setup or an ion exchange column. You could distil water to remove it but the effort is huge for no real advantage.

Chloride is water is not an issue for either drinking or brewing in the concentration found in any mains water in this country.

Thus endeth the chemistry lesson

Settle.... Settle..... Doc


Chloride ig toothpaste..... Chlorine ig .... smimming pool.....


Hirns

[drsmurto]

earle,

Na just your std under ground Bore water,its better than rain water to !

Most of the bores around our area are very good drinking quality hey,

Have you seen that latest add on Tv the Boags beer one thats what its like
pure Gold he he .

Cheers Rob.

The problem with bore water is that it is normally quite high in sodium and chloride.

As for better than rainwater, that will depend on your roof, nearby tress, what uses your roof for a toilet etc.

My rainwater is clean. I tested it and it has less than 0.1 ppm of any of the brewing ions. And i can drink it unfiltered.