Capital punishmnet

[Gav]

The world is full of grave injustice.

Even if this case represents an injustice, I'd suggest that the fate of a self-confessed drug dealer ranks lower than other ongoing injustices that permeate our world. That, perhaps, is another topic.

I reckon the question of capital punishment is so hotly debated because, when put to the test, both sides of the argument can be found wanting.

When this is the case (I think) my preference is to reduce the power of the State/Government and thus not have it kill its own people.

A final question to Oliver: If Osama Bin Laden knocked on your door would you sooner shoot him or give him a VB?

Gav

[Oliver]

A final question to Oliver: If Osama Bin Laden knocked on your door would you sooner shoot him or give him a VB?

Well, I wouldn't offer him a VB because, being Muslim and a non-drinker he'd probably shoot me (and who could blame him if it really was a VB that I offered him!).

If you're asking me whether I think that Osama bin Laden should be executed if he's caught, the answer is no.

Oliver

[Gav]

Oliver,

Given the opportunity, would you 'execute' anybody turned up on your doorstep with weapon in hand and threatened your life?

Assuming the answer is yes (as I assume you have the survival instinct) can, in your view, a person only be legitimately killed if they represent a real and proximate future danger to another life (as in self defence)?

Gav

[Oliver]

Gav,

I'd agree with killing in self-defence when one is in imminent danger.

Please don't try and tell me Nguyen or any drug smugglers pose a "real and proximate future danger to another life", thus justifying their deaths

The original question was about bin Laden turning up on my doorstep. There was no mention of him being armed and dangerous (although it might be a fair bet that he would be!).

Oliver

[r.magnay]

At the end of the day the dickhead did it, it is in Singapore not Australia, the fact that he is an Australian citizen makes no bloody difference at all, he knew the risk he was taking, and as for not punishing mules...........bullshit!!! they are as guilty as the big blokes but just not as smart. As for trying to blame our government........more bullshit, why should our government be rooting around trying to save a guilty bloke in another country from a crime that was going to do the damage in ours anyway, and that includes Hicks etc. we wouldn't be too keen on some mob from somewhere else telling us how to run our country so but out! As for capital punishment and who believes in it, If there is no doubt about the guilt, do it. What sort of chance of rehabilitation have the victims of the Tasmanian massacres carried out by Bryant got? And the list goes on.........that's me done.

[Oliver]

At the risk of starting another debate, don't forget that David Hicks has never been tried or convicted of anything.

He's just been held by the bloody Yanks for three years in Guantanamo Bay without the chance to prove in court his innocence.

But it seems that he's been tried and convicted by the public, based largely on the photo of him with a rocket launcher, which wasn't even taken anywhere near the Middle East.

Oliver

[Jay]

I don't agree with the death penalty...but I don't argue with the laws of other countries. We'd be horrified if another country's people told us we were backward with our laws.

While we're at it why not go on a crusade around the world telling everyone how their justice systems should work. All I'm getting at is that, unfortunately, there are a shit load of cases like this (that don't involve Australians) every day. People even get stoned to death in some countries for much less than drug smuggling (adultery to name but one) and there's not much publicity surrounding this.

This world is full of injustices, you've just got to feel lucky that we live where we do and when we do go to these countries people need to understand that you have to abide by and respect (no matter how stupid) their laws, otherwise unfortunately you may suffer the consequences.

You've also got to wonder how much of the publicity surrounding this trial is politically motivated.

It's a shit of a way to go, and I feel sorry for the family, but if you take a gamble when the stakes are that high you have to face up to the consequences of losing.

Jay.

[Dogger Dan]

Guys,

At UC1's request in his original post I am willing to drop this. I would be more than happy to discuss it else where mind you but I can't link it to beer right now. I have some rather strong feelings and I think everyone else does to and they sure seem to be on the surface for all of us. But it sure doesn't change my brewing or my respect for anyone else here.

Dogger.

[undercover1]

Agreed, DD.
I posted it as a non-beer related item of general interest. I think everyone has had a chance to make their views known. Interesting to read the wide range of opinions that exist in such a basically cohesive forum.
Apologies for a) misspelling the topic title, and b) opening such a big can of worms.
Lock it down, Oliver.

[Oliver]

Lock it down, Oliver.

Good idea, UC1.

I think we all know each other's feelings now.

Oliver