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Nice run down Aussie Claret. I agree with the majority of your points except the following.
Pre-heating the tun - I have found it a lot easier to hit, & hold, my target temperature if I pre-heat the tun. Could just be my tun, but it seems to help.
Strike water temperature - this will vary depending on tun, air/room, & grain temperature. 9c wont work for everyone, it should get you close though.
Mash temps - I mash around 64-66 for all beers lager or ale. IMO 68 may be a little high for a first attempt. I usually only go up to 68, for extra body, if brewing a low-mid alcohol beer.
Skimming The boil - I don't bother & don't think it makes much of a difference either way. I'm also unsure as to whether the foam is actually hot break. Hot break are the solid floaties that resemble the particals in egg drop soup.

Hi Chris,
I just commented on what works for me, there are many ways to skin a cat, but these are simple instructions. You are right about the pre-heating of the mash tun, it does depend on ambient temps of the grain and tun itself, but I've never missed the mash in temp and my mash tun holds the temp within 1c for 60mins. Hence never needed to pre-heat.

I always aim for medium body in all my beers and Beers smith always predicts the mash temp between 67-68c. Yeh I know beersmith is a greeat tool but can be a little restrictive. Next pilsner will be mashed at 65c though.

RWH do not go above 70c as you will denature the enzymes necessary for starch conversion, so you may wish to take Chris's good advise if you are uncertain for the first time regarding mashing in temps.
I'm a skimmer as I find it definetely reduces the risk of a boil over IMHO, Ed I have never had a problem with head retention or body/maltiness and I also use Irish moss or Whirlfloc. Perhaps I've just been lucky. Thanks guys.

Cheers
AC

god this AG stuff sounds complicated!

DJ wrote:god this AG stuff sounds complicated!

DJ, it really is not as hard as it sounds.

I often end up skimming, but that is more my fidgety nature - I need something to do during the 60 minute boil.

Cheers,
Greg

Chaps, I'm not trying to be a smart arse and sorry if it looks like that. There is more than just one protein being formed during the boil. It's the LTP1 (lipid transfer protein) that is responsible for foam stability. My question is, if you scoop, just how much of this protein is being removed? We work hard at designing beers with the addition of grains that are high producers of LTP1 (such as malted wheat). So if scooping, is this then being counter productive?

I used to scoop, because it's what I believed was the correct thing to do both on partial mashes and a couple of all grains. But I believe there is a difference in results.

I could be wrong about this, and would apreciate any feedback on it.

There are several tech articles on the web that are freely available if interested in having a read. Couple of links below.

Cheers, Ed

http://www.regional.org.au/au/abts/2001/w1/evans2.htm
http://www.crc.dk/flab/foam.htm
http://www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaete ... foam-e.htm
http://www.scientificsocieties.org/jib/ ... _112_1.htm

OK, modified steps, thx AC:

This is for a 23L batch, with 5kg of grain. Modify accordingly for your batch size.
Preheat mash tun
* Mash in with 2.5x weight of grain (12.5L @ 75°C)
* Ensure temp is 65°C (low body) to 68°C (high body), adjust with hot/cold as necessary
* Leave for an hour or more, stirring every 15 minutes to avoid cold spots, checking temp each time
* Mash out with very hot water (8L @ 100°C) to raise temp to ~82°C, stir
* Drain and recirculate, all of the wort out
* Add sparge water (15L @ 82°C), stir, leave for 10 mins
* Drain and recirculate, all of the wort out
* Total, 30L
* Do boil, chill with wort chiller, syphon into fermenter, leaving cold break behind

Reckon I'll mash around 67°C. I doubt that I will have super-accurate temperature control on my first go anyway!

DJ wrote:god this AG stuff sounds complicated!

It's not as complicated as it sounds DJ

As Aussie Claret said there are many ways to skin a cat. & after a few batches most AG brewers, myself included, get picky on details
Most of these steps are not crutial to making beer. For instance -

Heating the tun. It's not really that important but some ppl find it helps.

Hitting the exact mash temperature. Realistically anything between 63-68 will make beer. The difference in temperatures will just lend the beer different mouthfeel (the only reason I suggest a starting temp of 65 is because I believe it is the optimum temp for both Alpha & Beta Amalayse? so I believe it makes a nice mid point)

& even liquor to grist ratio's. In my first beers I pushed it as far as 6L per Kg of grain & was happy with the results.

As for the skimming you raise an interesting point there Ed. This is something I have not really read too much on. Thanks for the links I will read up tonight.

Cheers

According to Palmer, 67°C is the most oft-quoted midpoint.

As for the liquor-to-grist ratio, the only thing it affects is your yield, not the quality of the resulting beer. When you're starting you can just up the grain slightly if you're getting low yields. Grain is cheap.

rwh wrote:According to Palmer, 67°C is the most oft-quoted midpoint.

As for the liquor-to-grist ratio, the only thing it affects is your yield, not the quality of the resulting beer. When you're starting you can just up the grain slightly if you're getting low yields. Grain is cheap.

I thought that the optimum temps for Beta A. was between 52-62c. & 65-70 for Alpha A.? I may be wrong though.

Am not sure on the liquor to grist ratio only affecting the yield. The thickness (in conjunction with the temp of the mash) affects the way Beta A. behaves. Thicker mashes tend to favour more Beta activity. This, as I understand, helps in producing more maltose than a thinner mash might.

Info I have has the Beta Amylase active from 55 to 65, and the Alpha Amylase from 68 to 72 but there would be overlap anyway. Have been mashing at around 68, but have now dropped it back to around 65 because I prefer the result, and I find there's about a 3pt drop in FG (all else being equal).

Thicker the mash, the higher the enzyme activity which leads to faster and probably more complete saccrification. This is because the mash is more concentrated. That would be my take anyway.

BTW chis, that link for the IBD has got plenty of pdf files available to download. I don't know how long they are keeping the window open, so I downloaded all I was interested in some time back, and I just keep visiting there every so often to get the latest.

Cheers, Ed

thanks heaps for the ag help! ac you explain it pretty well! am almost ready for my first all grainer, am keen to try duanes LCPA recipe as mentioned earlier in this thread.have to scale it up from 15L to 23L. just not sure where he says to have two rounds of sparging at a certain temp,how long do i hold it there for? do i stir it up and let it sit a while then recirculate a bit then drain then repeat? thanks for the help!!!

just bought a digital thermocouple thermometer yesterday $99 with two probes and they can be used simultaneously! probably a bit of overkill is a digitech QM-1600 and no i dont have shares in the company

Beerdrinker32 wrote:just bought a digital thermocouple thermometer yesterday $99 with two probes and they can be used simultaneously! probably a bit of overkill is a digitech QM-1600 and no i dont have shares in the company

I got myself a digital thermo from craftbrewer for $12 and it works a treat

wow! go guys, great to see the AG ball well and truly on the roll here.

Beerdrinker, where Ive said to do two sparge rounds, just get your sparge water up to temp, dump on mash, stir and drain, then do it again.
No need to let it sit at all.
Also on my blog is a recipe if you like massive Cascade flavour and aroma called prawn head pale ale. Same grist as the one your looking at, but all cascade with Target as a mash hop. Nice.
Hope it all goes well mate. Be sure to post back with your adventure.

Ed wrote:Info I have has the Beta Amylase active from 55 to 65, and the Alpha Amylase from 68 to 72 but there would be overlap anyway. Have been mashing at around 68, but have now dropped it back to around 65 because I prefer the result, and I find there's about a 3pt drop in FG (all else being equal).

Thicker the mash, the higher the enzyme activity which leads to faster and probably more complete saccrification. This is because the mash is more concentrated. That would be my take anyway.

BTW chis, that link for the IBD has got plenty of pdf files available to download. I don't know how long they are keeping the window open, so I downloaded all I was interested in some time back, and I just keep visiting there every so often to get the latest.

Cheers, Ed

After a quick Google it seems that the quoted optimum temperature's for Alpha & Beta Amylase vary quite a lot. Maybe this is because of differing mash thicknesses between tests?

Thanks Ed. That IBD site has a few papers of interest. Will make some good sober reading

one last question duane, to up the 15Lbatch to a 25L is it a simple math thing? or are there other factors to consider? should i just times everything by 1.667? cheers

Hi beerdrinker, just got home from work and saw your post. I'm not exactly sure how to up the size with maths, but I think your right. Also I cant do it on beersmith for you as I dont know your equipment set up.
I strongly urge you to download http://www.beersmith.com , great program and works all this out for you.
Heres the recipe specs and you can work it out.

Trad. ale malt (Joe White) 86.5%
Carapils 5.4%
Wheat Malt 5.4%
Crystal 2.7%
Magnum 60min 22.8 IBU
Pearle 30min 7 IBU
Cascade 10min 5.4 IBU
and a bit over 2gm per litre cascade at flame out.

Good luck and let us know how it went.

cheers duane, downloaded beersmith a coupla monts ago and didnt really use it may have to pay for it as it keeps saying my trial version has expired coulndt find it on limewire for free got promash but everything is pounds quarts ounces and fraenheight

Beerdrinker32 wrote:cheers duane, downloaded beersmith a coupla monts ago and didnt really use it may have to pay for it as it keeps saying my trial version has expired coulndt find it on limewire for free got promash but everything is pounds quarts ounces and fraenheight

lot's of free conversion is on line ( they do the work for you). for example type in " convert gallons to liters" in search.

Cheer's Schooner

or using promash you can change the settings to metric.