All grain

[ACTbrewer]

I suppose these things go in cycles, but there seems to be a lot more AG action on this site lately.

I still think there is a place for kit and kilo though. Not everyone has the time, money or patience to do AG all the time.

[lethaldog]

Alot of people on here including myself are just starting to get into all grain and are asking alot of questions to get us started thus all the AG action, but i dont plan to get rid of my kit brews as they are still great and are quick and easy when your in a hurry, but i guess my theory is if your going to do it then you may as well explore all aspects of the hobby which is what i intend to do, saying that if the quality of AG is as good as everyone says then ill be doin alot more of these than kits let me tell you

[blandy]

I totally agree ACTbrewer,

Since August, I've done three AGs, four partials and one K&K. All good for their own reasons. I really don't have the time to do full mashes during semester, so partials are a really good option.

I am also experimenting with making my own recipes and find that it's a lot easier to start with this if you're doing partials. Just less to worry about.

[gregb]

An Extract and Specialty grain brew is about (IMHO) 90% of the beer for about 50% of the effort. This doesn't however stop me from the AG caper, but I do like the option for when the time is squeezed. The recipes in Palmers book are good for showing the All Extract, Extract & Spec and All Grain variations.

Cheers,
Greg

[Beerdrinker32]

almost got my brewery complete!!! could someone please post an ag recipe like little creatures or a killer german bier for my first cheers am gonna batch sparge and do a 40l big batch

[Duane]

There has been a bit of AG around lately, just natural progression I suppose. I agree that there is a place for k+k and partials as AG does take a lot of time and effort but IMO is well worth the effort. Everyone has to start somewhere and k+k is just the first step. I started with k+k and sugar, then kit with malt, then better yeast, partials and finally AG. No going back now. We are all trying to do the same thing which is brew bloody good beer at bloody good prices.
Beer on my friends.

[Duane]

Sorry Beerdrinker, should have put this in my last post.
Its only a 15lt batch size but very close to Little Creatures.
To work out any other batch sizes or recipes download the trial version of
Beersmith from http://www.beersmith.com it gives you 21 days to play around. Fantastic program.


Recipe: Little Creatures Clone
Brewer: Duane
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 15.00 L
Boil Size: 13.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 11.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 30.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.50 kg Pale Malt (2 row) (3.5 EBC) Grain 87.5 %
0.20 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 5.0 %
0.20 kg Wheat Malt (3.0 EBC) Grain 5.0 %
0.10 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) Grain 2.5 %
9.00 gm Magnum [14.00%] (60 min) Hops 18.1 IBU
8.00 gm Pearle [8.00%] (30 min) Hops 7.0 IBU
19.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (10 min) Hops 5.4 IBU
38.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 4.00 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 10.43 L of water at 74.4 C 67.8 C 60min

---------------------------------
Drain MT
Batch Sparge round 1: Sparge with 3.79lt of 79.6c water
Batch Sparge round 2: Sparge with 3.79lt of 79.6c water
Estimated pre boil gravity 1.057[/url]

[Aussie Claret]

I couldn't agree more with Duane!
K&K is a good starting point, that gets you into the hobby and is a learning point. Natural progression to partials then AG if you want.

I have done all three and I can honestly say that I would never move from AG, if I don't have time to do the AG, then I don't brew. I started brewing to make beer that you just can't buy or costs a fortune, if it's available; I didn't start brewing to save money. Once you've made good AG you wouldn't go back.

I'm not saying you can't make good K&K you can, but compared to All Grain there is no comparison. But a poorly brewed beer not matter what method you use will still be bad.

What I will say and will probably upset a few people is that with K&K you are kidding yourself if you think that you'll be able to make a beer better than a good commercial beer, it just can't be done.

I have always found that with kit beers you always get the kit twang not matter what yeast, adjuncts and temperature you ferment at. Dark beers are a lot more forgiving, but try making a kit pilsner; No way are you going to reproduce a Pilsner Irquell.

If you are in the hobby to make better beer then try partials then AG.

AC

[Duane]

Guys, heres a link I posted on another site for new AGers.
Good starting point for people wishing to try AG.
Includes lots of pics.
Cheers

http://cruisenews.net/brewing/infusion/

[Chris]

AG is good, but I've not had much time recently, so malt has been the go for the last 3 brews.

ACT Brewer, were you at the meeting last Thurs? If so, who are you?

[ACTbrewer]

Shhhh secret squirell! Yes I was one of the new guys that got up. Your not the goat farmer are you Chris?

Anyway, I tried quite a few AG brews that night, some of which placed first in the local comp and are now on the way to the nationals. Unless my taste buds are seriously compromised, I didn't think all of them were miles above some of the extract and K&K's I have tasted.

I agree with AC about the homebrew 'tang', but after the first two sips, I think it's gone anyway!

I just make this point, so that brewers don't think that AG is the only way to go. It may well be awesome, but there is a lot more to f--- up in an AG brew as well.

I hark back to the TCB APA. I would happily put this up against any AG APA I have drunk (admittedly, not may). Now maybe my tastes will
'mature', but if a kit with some grains and hops can taste this good, what else do I need? Certainly not the approval of some AG nob (I don't mean anyone here) who thinks that unless you have stainless steel undies then you are a loser.

Enough of that rant.

So yes AG can be wonderful, and addictive.
But yes, you can also make very drinkable beer without going AG.

In the states, extract brewing is huge. I can see that happening here as well.
You only need a boiler, unhopped malt extract, specialty grains and hops.
You get some mouthfeel, head retention and body from the grain, as well as bitterness, flavour and aroma from the hops.

Ahh it's all good!

[DJ]

I have always wondered if AG is THAT much better than kit beers..

But at the end of the day, if you are happy doing what you are doing...

[Aussie Claret]

ACT Brewer,
Just a quick question the TCB APA Wetpak, I've never made one of these but aren't they similar to the grumps add water and away you go jobs? Ie. Mashed grain hopped with real hops? Because I personally wouldn't class these as Kit and Kilo.
Been on there web site
http://www.countrybrewer.com/forum/view ... d1a3db993f
Not really a K&K is it?
In my post what I refer to K&K is a can of goo that you add a kilo of sugar, nothing else. AND these don't compare.

With AG as you suggest there is alot more things to worry about and f up but AG brewers usually (Usually) have had alot of experience and are very well researched, so know what they are doing; mistakes can happen though.


DJ where are you from update your profile, if you are in the area pop in for a beer. Same invitation to all! I do AG's regularly and for anybody interested in trying a few beers and learning what AG is all about you're welcome to come along.

Hang on let me put my chain mail stainless steel undies on I don't mean to sound all high and mighty sorry I have come across that way.

Cheers
AC

[ACTbrewer]

The TCB wetpaks are not fresh wort kits, it is a 1 can kit with specialty grains and hops. Almost extract brewing, except you are using their (hopped) malt extract.
That link confuses me, because I thought a partial mash indicated you needed to do a mash. You don't with the wetpak, you just steep the grains. Anyhoo....

To make the point, try a beer from your mate who uses a homebrand lager, done with 1kg of cane sugar, using the out of date kit yeast, fermented in Feb in Brisbane, and you will appreciate how poor beer can be.

Don't get me wroing, I think AG beer is sensational, but I also think you can make good beer in other ways.

ON the other hand, I'm not so sure you can make good beer by buying a simple K&K and adding sugar!

[DJ]

DJ where are you from update your profile, if you are in the area pop in for a beer. Same invitation to all! I do AG's regularly and for anybody interested in trying a few beers and learning what AG is all about you're welcome to come along.
Cheers
AC

Mate,
Would love too.. I'm in NSW so if you are willing to payfor airfares and accomodation I'm there!!

[Beerdrinker32]

thanks duane!!!! this will be my first ag attempt when my brewery is completed people have given me funny looks when they see all the equipment piling up with 50L barrels everywhere

[Beerdrinker32]

what do you guys reckon causes the HB twang you speak about? is it the can of goo? the malt extract? both? ive haerd condensing the wort into a can of goo does it? chemicals formed during the process? would doing an extract brew have the same twang? cheers!

[gregb]

Some discussion about extract twang on the Sept #2 2006 Sanders show that is worth a listnen.

Cheers,
Greg

[Beerdrinker32]

thanks greg,had a listen to that. seems the removal of the hot break is the biggest contributing factor to how much twang is there. also the cold break,oxidation of phenol compounds plus a lot of other oxidation reactions that have occured more in old malt extract. cheers

[Beerdrinker32]

question then would be, whats the best way to remove the hot break? and cold break? do you somehow scoop it off the top during boiling? havta read up further. have studied biochem so i can get my head around the compounds and reactions but need help with the methods cheers mate