I said this before earlier in this thread and it was never contested... but if you are not going to boil your water then why not just wash your fermenter with ordinary old tap water in the first place. I might not be the sharpest knife in the draw but i can't understand why you would go to trouble bleaching everything and rinsing with boiled water and then just go and pour tap water over everything anyway.
.... next, I take your word and dr carl's that boiled water tastes flat, but after we have turned it into beer it should be anything but flat, on top of this any oxygen in the water is supposedly taken care of by the yeast, so I hardly think this is an issue.
...and finally, when my boiled water passes through 37 degrees it is in a sealed, sanitized fermentor, once again... sounds like a non-issue to me.
I don't wash walls or get too carried away, but anything that goes in my fermentor is sanitized and that is the way i will continue to brew until someone convinces me otherwise, and believe me I would love to be convinced that boiling around 18 litres is a waste of time...
Patrick
Continual Infections
Also, have you thought about going to a local government OHS or CSIRO building and asking as to if they have some home fungi, spor and breathable toxins kits around?
Set one of those up in the room where everything always gets infected then return the completed test to the CSIRO or OHS department and they will test each culture in the lab for it's content and strain and give you a full feedback for it.
Don't be too scared off by the cost of it ($250 or so for full report), you can claim it back twice if you have a good medicare plan.
Set one of those up in the room where everything always gets infected then return the completed test to the CSIRO or OHS department and they will test each culture in the lab for it's content and strain and give you a full feedback for it.
Don't be too scared off by the cost of it ($250 or so for full report), you can claim it back twice if you have a good medicare plan.
A few days in...
Evening all,
Popped on the brew Thursday evening, and so far, all is travelling well. The smells coming from the airlock haven't deteriated into their usual "not quite right" smell. While it's too early to know for sure, it's a good start, and I'm happy.
Dogger: Am I sure that it's infections? Well, no, I'm not sure at all. Based on the limited understanding I have of the process, infections was the conclusion I had come to (and hence the extensive sterilising procedure).
Wimmig: Ouch! I may end up going down this path, but I think that it may be the last resort. I do have some other paths to explore, which I'd like to try first.
Can-o-worms: Thanks COW - sorry to see you leave the forum.
Undercover1: Thanks for such a detailed reply. I was always prepared for a variety of opinions - that's what forums are about. For me, I was interested in listening to other peoples' experiences and advice, and taking it all back to my own efforts. I appreciate that there will almost always be a difference in opinion. I will continue to listen, and trial things as I can.
Sorry to those that I have not replied to - this post has run away from me a bit.
BTW, spent some time looking up lactobaccilus. Apparently they're easy to kill - just leave your fermenter out in the Sun for a while. Dogger, you're in the food industry, have you heard of such advice? Gleaned this info from forum.northernbrewers.com.
Popped on the brew Thursday evening, and so far, all is travelling well. The smells coming from the airlock haven't deteriated into their usual "not quite right" smell. While it's too early to know for sure, it's a good start, and I'm happy.
Dogger: Am I sure that it's infections? Well, no, I'm not sure at all. Based on the limited understanding I have of the process, infections was the conclusion I had come to (and hence the extensive sterilising procedure).
Wimmig: Ouch! I may end up going down this path, but I think that it may be the last resort. I do have some other paths to explore, which I'd like to try first.
Can-o-worms: Thanks COW - sorry to see you leave the forum.
Undercover1: Thanks for such a detailed reply. I was always prepared for a variety of opinions - that's what forums are about. For me, I was interested in listening to other peoples' experiences and advice, and taking it all back to my own efforts. I appreciate that there will almost always be a difference in opinion. I will continue to listen, and trial things as I can.
Sorry to those that I have not replied to - this post has run away from me a bit.
BTW, spent some time looking up lactobaccilus. Apparently they're easy to kill - just leave your fermenter out in the Sun for a while. Dogger, you're in the food industry, have you heard of such advice? Gleaned this info from forum.northernbrewers.com.
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undercover1
- Posts: 462
- Joined: Friday Jun 03, 2005 10:28 am
- Location: Melbourne
Can Of Worms, I understand from another post of yours you may no longer be with us. This is your choice, amigo, as is boiling everything that touches your fermenter.I don't wash walls or get too carried away, but anything that goes in my fermentor is sanitized and that is the way i will continue to brew until someone convinces me otherwise, and believe me I would love to be convinced that boiling around 18 litres is a waste of time...
Patrick
I have brewed for many years, on several continents, and the only person I have ever met who needed- and I assure you I mean REALLY needed- to boil so much was a Finnish fellow who brewed a rye based grain brew using water from a lake next to his cottage. Every drop was filtered through terracotta then boiled. The reason? Duck shit in the lake.
If you do visit again, and notice this post- please try a brew without the extreme boiling. Rinse using tap water! Fill your fermenter with tap water!
See if it makes any difference.
You may find it makes none at all, and so can convince yourself that boiling around 18 litres is indeed a waste of time...but then again, maybe not. It's your brew!
Salut!
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Longbeach Brewer
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Monday Sep 13, 2004 10:00 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Thanks for following up, LB.
Yep, that brew has been in the bottle for a couple of weeks. Have tasted a couple, and they were fine. Gotta let this one condition a bit more, though.
Have put another one down since, but I'm not as happy with it. It has some of the same bad taste and smell as the past brews, although not as strong. The beer is drinkable, but only just. I'm going to take a bottle in to my HBS to see what they think.
I've still got a bit of testing to do, because I don't think I've got the problem licked just yet. I'm moving house in a week, so I'm keen to try a few things at the new place. One of them is moving out of the Bathroom (I have permission from 'er indoors to turn the 3rd bedroom into a brewery). And I'll keep trying different things with the water.
Hopefully will be able to post up the results in a few weeks.
Yep, that brew has been in the bottle for a couple of weeks. Have tasted a couple, and they were fine. Gotta let this one condition a bit more, though.
Have put another one down since, but I'm not as happy with it. It has some of the same bad taste and smell as the past brews, although not as strong. The beer is drinkable, but only just. I'm going to take a bottle in to my HBS to see what they think.
I've still got a bit of testing to do, because I don't think I've got the problem licked just yet. I'm moving house in a week, so I'm keen to try a few things at the new place. One of them is moving out of the Bathroom (I have permission from 'er indoors to turn the 3rd bedroom into a brewery). And I'll keep trying different things with the water.
Hopefully will be able to post up the results in a few weeks.
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Oliver
- Administrator
- Posts: 3424
- Joined: Thursday Jul 22, 2004 1:22 am
- Location: West Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Would you mind sharing with us how you requested and were granted permission to turn a bedroom into a brewery?scooper wrote:(I have permission from 'er indoors to turn the 3rd bedroom into a brewery).
How much did you have to put on the credit card?
Did you have to marry her?
Where can I trade my missus in for one like yours?
Oliver
Easy. You have to let them believe that they are making the decision. Converstaion went something like this:
scooper: I want to setup my brewing in the spare bedroom of the new house
'er indoors: I don't think that it's a good idea.
scooper: That's alright, it'd be better in the kitchen anyway. I'd be closer to the taps and the stove.
'er indoors: I'M NOT HAVING THAT BUBBLING BLOODY THING IN MY KITCHEN!!!
scooper: Oh, well I could setup my brewing in the spare bedroom?
'er indoors: That's a much better idea. I know that you had your heart set on setting up in the kitchen, but I just won't have it.
scooper: OK, I understand
scooper: I want to setup my brewing in the spare bedroom of the new house
'er indoors: I don't think that it's a good idea.
scooper: That's alright, it'd be better in the kitchen anyway. I'd be closer to the taps and the stove.
'er indoors: I'M NOT HAVING THAT BUBBLING BLOODY THING IN MY KITCHEN!!!
scooper: Oh, well I could setup my brewing in the spare bedroom?
'er indoors: That's a much better idea. I know that you had your heart set on setting up in the kitchen, but I just won't have it.
scooper: OK, I understand
well done scooper, play them at their own game, who said only women scheme!!!
I'm gradually turning spare room into brewery store room, have shelves on two walls etc, helps if she likes the cider I brew so suggested it should be inside so it's easier for her to get! Then just went from there.
If only I could get sink and taps in there!
I'm gradually turning spare room into brewery store room, have shelves on two walls etc, helps if she likes the cider I brew so suggested it should be inside so it's easier for her to get! Then just went from there.
If only I could get sink and taps in there!
Some people say I have a drinking Problem....
I drink, I get drunk, I fall over....
What's the problem?
http://www.brodiescastlebrewing.com/
I drink, I get drunk, I fall over....
What's the problem?
http://www.brodiescastlebrewing.com/
I've had problems in the past with brews continually getting infected. I too asked my LHBS (Oakliegh) for advice. Did the soak everything (fermentor,equipment, bottles etc.) in bleach overnight. Still got the "infected" taste in brews.
Plastic can trap tastes in it. A bugger to get out.
Bought a new fermentor - all problems gone.
Scooper, How did the house move go?
Have you got your brew room? Any pictures of it?
Cheers -Redsicks
Plastic can trap tastes in it. A bugger to get out.
Bought a new fermentor - all problems gone.
Scooper, How did the house move go?
Have you got your brew room? Any pictures of it?
Cheers -Redsicks
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Dogger Dan
- Posts: 3168
- Joined: Thursday Aug 26, 2004 10:43 am
- Location: Lucan, Ontario, Canada
I would rinse that old fermentor with so much water it was not funny(I did put that water on the garden).
After that overnight soak in bleach, I'd soak it overnight in just water, changing it every say six hours. Just couldn't budge that smell & taste of rot.
Now that I have the new fermentor, I still use bleach. No problems.
Soak, quick rinse, ferment. simple.
Cheers
After that overnight soak in bleach, I'd soak it overnight in just water, changing it every say six hours. Just couldn't budge that smell & taste of rot.
Now that I have the new fermentor, I still use bleach. No problems.
Soak, quick rinse, ferment. simple.
Cheers
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Dogger Dan
- Posts: 3168
- Joined: Thursday Aug 26, 2004 10:43 am
- Location: Lucan, Ontario, Canada
My mate's father has been brewing for 20 years and never sanitises or boils water. I asked him and apparently his beer has never had any off flavours/infections.
I sanitise like a bastard and have had several off flavoured brews.
Maybe we're all too anal.
I agree with the bleach thing though. I had some real weird (bad weird not interesting weird) flavoured brews when I used the stuff even though i'd rinse till I couldn't smell bleach any more and then some. Have stopped using it now and everything is sweet.
I came to this topic late so my advice is probably useless now but I would have maybe tried using a mate's tap water.
Cheers,
Jay.
I sanitise like a bastard and have had several off flavoured brews.
Maybe we're all too anal.
I agree with the bleach thing though. I had some real weird (bad weird not interesting weird) flavoured brews when I used the stuff even though i'd rinse till I couldn't smell bleach any more and then some. Have stopped using it now and everything is sweet.
I came to this topic late so my advice is probably useless now but I would have maybe tried using a mate's tap water.
Cheers,
Jay.
Back on the air
Back into it after a short hiatus...
With the fermenter packed away and Internet access not available, I was able to sit down and replay some of the past events. I resampled the brew that I mentioned in the July 13th post (the one that had the hint of off-flavours) and found that the hint had matured into it's usual, disgusting self. Which got me thinking: This particular beer went bad in the bottle, which is a first. All the others went to poo in the fermenter. But, all of the batches had the same things in common. They all tasted the same (regardless of style), they all smelt the same, and they all were much darker than they should have been. For example, a Wheat beer came out orange, and a pale ale came out a bit darker than a Kilkenny.
Now, I think I may have found the issue: Chlorophenols. The only thing that I can find common between these failures is Chlorine. With the first brews, I used unboiled and unfiltered tap water. With the later brews, I used bleach to wash the fermenter, and then used unboiled and unfiltered tap water. With the bottled failure, I used neo-pink to wash the bottles. From the neo-pink label: "100% Chlorinated Trisodium Phosphate".
To test the theory, I put on a "Chlorine free" brew over the weekend. The fermenter and parts were sanitised with Sodium Met and rinsed with cool boiled water; the dex/LDM were added to boiling water for 15 mins; kit added after heat removed; and the top-up water was filtered through a Brita filter jug. And when it's time to bottle, I plan to use Sodium Met to sanitise the bottles with.
If this works, then I'll repeat the procedure to make sure that it wasn't a fluke. I'll also hopefully get a bottle off to HBS to confirm my theory.
House move went well, thanks. Have got the brew room, however, it seems that I was played at my own game. On the day of the move, ALL my other belongings were also put into the spare room, accompanied with "THIS is your room, so this is where YOUR stuff goes!" So the brewery is also a computer room, a book shelf room, a store room, a lot-of-cardboard-boxes-awaiting-sorting room...Scooper, How did the house move go?
Have you got your brew room? Any pictures of it?
With the fermenter packed away and Internet access not available, I was able to sit down and replay some of the past events. I resampled the brew that I mentioned in the July 13th post (the one that had the hint of off-flavours) and found that the hint had matured into it's usual, disgusting self. Which got me thinking: This particular beer went bad in the bottle, which is a first. All the others went to poo in the fermenter. But, all of the batches had the same things in common. They all tasted the same (regardless of style), they all smelt the same, and they all were much darker than they should have been. For example, a Wheat beer came out orange, and a pale ale came out a bit darker than a Kilkenny.
Now, I think I may have found the issue: Chlorophenols. The only thing that I can find common between these failures is Chlorine. With the first brews, I used unboiled and unfiltered tap water. With the later brews, I used bleach to wash the fermenter, and then used unboiled and unfiltered tap water. With the bottled failure, I used neo-pink to wash the bottles. From the neo-pink label: "100% Chlorinated Trisodium Phosphate".
To test the theory, I put on a "Chlorine free" brew over the weekend. The fermenter and parts were sanitised with Sodium Met and rinsed with cool boiled water; the dex/LDM were added to boiling water for 15 mins; kit added after heat removed; and the top-up water was filtered through a Brita filter jug. And when it's time to bottle, I plan to use Sodium Met to sanitise the bottles with.
If this works, then I'll repeat the procedure to make sure that it wasn't a fluke. I'll also hopefully get a bottle off to HBS to confirm my theory.
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Guest
Scooper, this is exactly how I brew. Except I use tap water. Done over 20 brews now, and never had any probs. You don't need to rinse sodium met, just tip it out and go for it. Same when bottling. Saves heaps of time & water. Never had any funny tastes or anything. I think you're on the right track.
