Continual Infections

[I'mANewbie]

Hello,

Have been having issues with infections since day one, and was wondering if anyone could offer some advice. I've been brewing for about 6 months, and on average, I'm dumping 2 out of every 3 batches.

I've gotten to the point where I'm doing the following:
- Washing the floors, surrounding walls and ceiling with bleach solution before I begin.
- Putting on fresh clean clothes and sterilising my feet with the bleach solution.
- Wearing disposable surgical gloves and a face mask
- Soaking the vessel and parts in a strong bleach solution (sometimes overnight).
- Rinse out the bleach and soak the vessel and parts in Sodium Metabisulphate for an hour.
- Washing any other tools used (i.e. scissors to open packaging) with bleach solution.
- Washing outside of ingredient packaging with Sodium Metabisulphate solution.
- If I leave the room, I sterlise my feet and gloves again when I come back in.
- For each stage of the process, I change the gloves.

This whole exercise usually takes me several hours. And while going through the above has improved my success rate, I'm still dumping way to o much.

I've spoken with other people, none of them go to these efforts, yet they have consistent results. Is there something that I'm just not doing right?


Thanks heaps!

[Evo]

Whoah !

Have you tried sitting in an autoclave for a few minutes before brewing ? Just jokes.

Are you sure your brews are getting infected ? What are the symptoms ? What does it smell/taste like ?

[Dogger Dan]

I doubt its an infection

May I suggest the dreaded chlorophenol

Will add more later

Dogger

[Dogger Dan]

Ok,

Sorry, I had to earn some cake

Judging from what you are saying I think we can rule infection unless you are doing something goofy like maybe using a wooden spoon that has been imersed in wort for a few weeks and then left out. Take a minute if you will and take us down a day of brewing.

I would like you to think about obscure things like where you get your water, what condition the equipment is in, what you are using for a brew, do you rinse the sanitizer out etc. really try and be specific.

Include please what condition the bottles are in, ie when I crack them I have a gyser coming out of the bottle, beer wont clear etc.

I know this may be frustrating but we will eventually get to the problem. One of us will knock it out of the park guarenteed.

Dogger

[Oliver]

Hi,

Can you give us a bit more information, please.

What makes you think that you're getting infections (describe the taste, smell, look)?

At what stage do these apparent infections appear (in the fermenter, after bottling, etc)?

What sort of beers are you brewing?

If you can tell us about this it may help find a solution.

One source of infection that is often overlooked is the tap. Have you removed the sediment reducer and soaked the tap in steriliser?

Regards,

Oliver

[Wimmig]

I suggest using a water test kit available from the water authority, and checking the ingredients in your process, including the gloves.

[Hrundi V Bakshi]

Particularly the gloves isn't it. Latex is a natural substance. I'm sure it is full of pre-microbial matter.

[DoubleChevron]

Good grief,

I haven't had an infected brew for about 3years.

Here's the huge effort I go to.

--Rinse the sludge out from the previous brew.
--boil the kettle and dump a kettle full of boiling water in the fermenter. Run some boiling water through the tap and over the taps threads. swish the water around the fermenter and dump down the sink
--run some boiling water from the kettle over the mixing plastic spoon
--dump the contents in the fermenter (brewables & water from the tap)
--run some boiling water over the fermenters lid.

Never even washed my hands that I can remember (after all I don't go sticking my hands in the beer).

That's it Never an infected brew.

Bottling, rinse bottles after drinking beer and dump them in the cupboard. When ready for bottling boil the kettle, a little boiling water in each bottle, give 'em a shake and prime/fill.

I've had an apple cider that had 1/2dozen infected bottles about 6months ago. Personally I think the apple cider went off .... It was the last 6bottles. No other bottles have ever become infected.

Maybe I'm just lucky ?? I seem to average about 1brew a week.

seeya,
Shane L.

[the Baron]

Newbie, I personally think infections are a phenomonem that is supposed to be rare. My personell sanitation technique is scrathching my balls. I try to be carefull with my fermenters and I try not to drop to much shit other than fermentables in my brew but have been known to stuff my paw to the bottom of a brew to make sure I have a sedement reducer in place and have had no problems. Does your system seal proprly? I don't think you should be super relax about the process but you seem to be overdoing it.
p.s. as you seem to be very bad luck you are not alowed withing 200m of my fermenter, don't take this personally

[Dogger Dan]

Baron,

Thanks for the heads up

I think I might avoid your pints

All in fun

Dogger

[gregb]

Baron,

Was it you had the fly fall into your fementer?
If so, how did that one turn out?

Cheers,

Greg

[thehipone]

Could be a lactobacillus infection. THose bastards are notorious for being VERY difficult to get rid of, and lead to many infected batches.

[Dogger Dan]

Yeh,

I was thinking that to except he is being so anal about cleaning that I am pretty sure its cool.

Gees, Baron scratches his stones and can't get an infection and here this poor Bugger is doing yeomans duty on his house. If I did all that my missus would think me round the bend.

Hear hooves think zebras with this one folks.

Dogger

[Hrundi V Bakshi]

Yeh,

Hear hooves think zebras with this one folks.

I hear the clip-clop clip-clop of billy goats crossing a bridge.

[Dogger Dan]

Fair enough



Dogger

[the Baron]

The fruit-flys that fell in my beer were no problems, they got bottled and eventually drunk. They were good drinking buddies. However not wanting to press my luck I have bought a plastic tub that I can fill with water and brew in so that I no longer brew outside next to a compost bin, also more convienient.
I am pretty good with my sanitisation of fermenter and bottles but have never actually really thought about washing my hands or anything, guess I have been lucky, fortune favours the brave.

[Evo]

Fruit flies in your beer Baron ? I think you're on to something. All you need to do is market it as a similar vein to the agave worm in the bottle of Mezcal.

Is it true that we can no longer buy this ? I gave up drinking tequila when I was fifteen, but had many unrememberable nights chomping the gritty head of the worm (no, that's not code).

[Lebowski]

My first 3 or so beers I made had a bad taste to them (I had been using some no rinse steriliser). Then I got some neo pink while I was in the supermarket and used that next time and havent had he bad taste come back.. Maybe something to try.

I might just try the boiling water in bottles next time so i dont have to shake and rinse twice.

[I'mANewbie]

Whoa, lots of replies. Thanks everyone.

I need some time to put together the whole day's process, as requested by Dogger, but I can answer some of the other questions. Hopefully this will make the picture a little clearer.

OK, so nothing that harbours bugs like a wooden spoon (I don't use wooden chopping boards in the kitchen for the same reason). I try to use plastic as much as possible.

The "infections" always happen in the fermenter, rather than the bottles. I can tell when I sample a brew after taking a hydrometer reading (after the airlock slows down). There's a few different smells mixed in, but predominantly it smells of rotten fruit. It sometimes has slight metallic smell as well. It doesn't taste fabulous either.

So what does the brew look like?
I've opened the one of the bottles after a week or two to see how the batch is progressing, and regardless of the type (Wheat, Lager, etc.), the beers always looks the same - a slight orange colour. I've not seen a beer of this shade before, especially Wheat beers. The smell has usually lost any ambiguity, and smells of the rotten fruit. However, the yeast has settled to the bottom as expected, and the bottle gives off a healthy "Pffft" when I pop the cap off. The beer has a good head when poured into a glass.

In terms of cleaning, I throw the tap, seals, spoons, etc., into the fermenter as I'm sterlising it. I try to scrub everything as much as possible without using abrasives, as I've read that they can introduce small scratches that harbour bugs. So I use a Chux cloth where possible, and a soft bottle brush for the threaded parts, such as the tap.

All of my equipment is quite new - just over 6 months - and so is in good condition. I've tried going to real basics for ingredients to minimise contact. The water comes from the bath taps, which are the only ones that I can get access to to fill the fermenter.

It's also probably worth mentioning that my very first brew was a success. And one that was quite easy and straighforward. What have I done wrong since? Argh! I feel like a complete wally for going so overboard with the cleaning, but it's the only thing that has increased my success rate.

Any help that you can provide will be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks.

[I'mANewbie]

Sorry I forgot to mention. I also get a good idea when a brew is infected when it takes loger for the brew to finish. For the brews that have been OK, I've been able to bottle after a week. For the infected ones, I always have to wait 2 weeks or more.