Berri Apple Juice Cider

[Trizza]

All,

I’ve been thinking of making an all-juice apple cider, and following a good read of some of the posts Berri seems to be a goer. I’ll be aiming for 6-7%. The amber candi sugar, brown sugar and honey should leave some residual unfermentable sugars, reducing the need for lactose to impart sweetness

Recipe so far:
22L Berri Apple Juice
0.50Kg Dextrose
0.50Kg Brown Sugar
0.25Kg Honey
0.10Kg Amber Candi Syrup
Wyeast 1338 – Belgian Strong Ale
Volume – 24L

Any Comments? / Questions? / Queries?

Trizza

[drsmurto]

Everything you are adding is 100% fermentable or thereabouts, they are all simple sugars so you will have very little residual sweetness.

[rotten]

Gday mate.
I didn't add anything to my berri juice cider, except for 1 coopers yeast for nutrient in a small boil, and 2 packs coopers yeast for the ferment, pitched around 18-20c from memory.

The only comment I would add if you hadn't read it already, was to leave it sit in fermentor for 3 weeks at least. My gravity readings stopped after 5 days, and I needed a fermentor free so I bottled. FG weas 1008, shoould have dropped to 1002 if I was patiant enough. End result is a dry almost champagne like cider, which is very drinkable, just learnt something from it.
Cheers

[timmy]

I'd be interested in finding out how the cider turns out by using the Belgian strains...... I can't go past the Wyeast Cider strain because it makes a great dry cider from store-bought juice.

Cheers,

Tim

[Trizza]

Everything you are adding is 100% fermentable or thereabouts, they are all simple sugars so you will have very little residual sweetness.

I don’t agree fully with you on that one doc. I'm aware that sugars such as honey, candi syrup and brown sugar they are more fermentable than malt extract, however they are less fermentable than dextrose. From experience using these sugars, I'd say that they are 93-98% fermentable, with some residual sweetness. I may need to add additional lactose post fermentation to sweeten it up a bit.

I put the recipe down as above however I used 16.80L of Apple Pear Juice & 5.40L of Apple Juice. I also bumped up the dextrose to 1.00Kg. OG was 1068, bubbling away nicely. It tastes pretty damm good so far.

I’ll be going for my usual 2 week primary; 2 week secondary; 2 week tertiary before bottling.

[RUM57L]

2 week tertiary before bottling.

G'Day,

Can you tell me what this means? I understand the first 2 steps but not this one

[Bum]

He sticks a piece of paper to his fermenter...

[RUM57L]

lol... and if he fails?

[Trizza]

Not Exactly…

I rack the brew once after 2 weeks, then again after another 2 weeks. 2 weeks after the second racking I bottle. Therefore each brew spends:
2 weeks in primary;
2 weeks in secondary;
2 weeks in tertiary.

Hasn’t anyone else racked their brews twice before???

[Bum]

I'm sure they have but I can't say that I've ever seen anyone call the second secondary a tertiary. Still, a rose by any other name and all that.

How much improvement do you think you see over an extended secondary of four weeks? I'm just thinking the results would want to be pretty spectacular in order to accept the extra losses. That's just me, of course.

[RUM57L]

Ah ok Trizza cheers for the clarification there.

I'm keen to try something like your recipe above in the future, as Bum asked.. do you notice a great difference when racking the additional time?

[Trizza]

Ah ok Trizza cheers for the clarification there.

I'm keen to try something like your recipe above in the future, as Bum asked.. do you notice a great difference when racking the additional time?

Every batch I do has a minimum of 6 weeks with the above schedule. Honey & candi sugar take a considerable amount of time to ferment out at 16 degrees.

I adopted the double racking because nearly all of the beer I make falls into the strong <9% category. When making higher gravity brews the trub increases in size. I kept finding that when it came to rack for the final time, (for bulk priming) the trub was considerable enough for me to consider racking twice throughout the brewing process.

The beer that I’ve made over the past 12 months using this process has been very clean and to a high standard that I thought would be unattainable through home brewing. As for losses, I generally loose less than 200ml in each rack, and that’s nothing to be concerned about in my opinion. It is a lot of effort however, but I figure it’s worth it when the beer comes out clean tasting with a lot less of the crap in the bottles that as home brewers we’re used to.

[Bum]

Ah, unless I'm racking to try and kickstart a stubborn, sleepy beer I pretty much only rack to bulk prime. As such I'm used to larger losses to trub. Yeah, I can't see 200ml influencing my decision either.

[warra48]

2 week tertiary before bottling.

G'Day,

Can you tell me what this means? I understand the first 2 steps but not this one

He brews in the basement.
Ferments on the ground floor.
Conditions on the first floor.

Or have I got that wrong??

[Bum]

Is that an anti-gravity system?

[warra48]

Is that an anti-gravity system?

Yup, looks like it to me.

The higher the alcohol, the more you float, at least, you think you do.......

[hirns]

Recently did an all juice cider to rplace the Blackrock kit for the wife:

14.4L of berri Apple Juice
250grm of lactose
1 dry enzyme sachet
1 sachet of Craftbrewer's Champagne Yeast at 19C. (QUOTE: This strain of Saccharomyces bayanus comes from a French wine yeast, a special isolate yeast which has good tolerance to ethanol and free sulfur dioxide, and ferments to dryness. This yeast is noted as a very low producer of foam, urea, and fusel oils. It is recommended for reds, whites and especially champagne. This yeast is reported to perform well restarting stuck fermentations. Winemakers have remarked upon it being one of the fastest, cleanest, and most neutral fermenter yeast available.)
Ferments between 7°- 35°C (45°- 95°F).[/size]
After three weeks in the primary, It was crystal clear and I could see the 1mm pocks in the yeast bed through the cling wrap. I bottled directly from the fermenter and the yeast did not move. The clarity was better than any beer I've made in 10+ years of brewing. It is a clear as my beer that's been through the 1 micron filter. There is no way that I would have racked or filtered this cider (I know, I'll aim to post pics to substanciate this claim). It has carbed well and sampled a bottle after three weeks on Saturday night. Better than the bought stuff, and miles better than the Blackrock and at a similar price. I will increase the lactose to 400 to 500grms next time, and or add some berri pear juice to increase the sweetness a tad. Having said that, it was not overly dry (thought it would be), and the wife likes the low kJ aspect.

Cheers

Hirns

[rotten]

Thanks for sharing that Hirns, will give it a go next time. Might need to be quick as the Berri juice factory in Berri SA has closed down, heaps of people out of work.
Cheers

[Bum]

Hirns, if you have a quick squizz you'll see trizza puts a whole bunch of stuff in his that'd make it much cloudier than an all juice cider. You might look at his and want to put it in all sorts of higher educational fermenters.

I hope it is pretty clear I'm not having a go at your recipe or your process, trizza. It works - keep doing it.

[hirns]

Hirns, if you have a quick squizz you'll see trizza puts a whole bunch of stuff in his that'd make it much cloudier than an all juice cider. You might look at his and want to put it in all sorts of higher educational fermenters.

I hope it is pretty clear I'm not having a go at your recipe or your process, trizza. It works - keep doing it.

Recipe so far:
22L Berri Apple Juice
0.50Kg Dextrose
0.50Kg Brown Sugar
0.25Kg Honey
0.10Kg Amber Candi Syrup
Wyeast 1338 – Belgian Strong Ale
Volume – 24L

Yeah, was aware of that Bum but a fair enough cop. My post read more like a revelation when I guess in between the lines I was searching as to whether this was the result of the Berri Juice or the particular yeast. I haven't read of anyone else mentioning such clarity, but assumed it was the norm with an all juice cider and was supprised(despite my tertiary education ) by the need of the whole tertiary racking thing. Chopped apples, etc., I can understand would add to the cloudyness, but I would have thought that all of those fermentables would not only ferment out, but settle out fairly well. I'm keen to try Wyeast 4766 which I believe won't be as dry as the champagne yeast, but will I get a similiar clarity if I stick with all juice for the moment? A Ph.D racking cube might also work .

Cheers

Hirns