Cider

Grabbie · Post by **Grabbie** » Sunday Jul 17, 2005 10:22 am

Hi everyone,
I know cider takes longer to ferment, does that mean it needs longer in the bottle to carbonate as well? Or should two weeks be enough?
Cheers,
Grabbie

NTRabbit · Post by **NTRabbit** » Sunday Jul 17, 2005 10:43 am

My cider was nicely carbonated after 2 weeks

Grabbie · Post by **Grabbie** » Sunday Jul 17, 2005 10:47 am

Thanks NTRabbit for the prompt reply

umop-3p|sdn · Post by **umop-3p|sdn** » Monday Jul 18, 2005 10:12 am

I used a blackrock cider kit, with 1kg of dextrose, and half a kg of honey, and yeast supplied by LHBS.

I primed it using dextrose, and after 2 weeks in my laundry cupboard at 21-odd degrees, it is definately drinkable.

undercover1 · Post by **undercover1** » Monday Jul 18, 2005 10:42 am

Making good cider is simple- buy 5 3l bottles of preservative free apple juice from the supermarket for about $12.00 all up, add some yeast nutrient, a good wine yeast & maybe some dex or honey to get the OG up, then leave to ferment for three weeks. Prime, bottle & drink whenever. The difference in taste between this and any kit cider is amazing.

Post by **Oliver** » Saturday Jul 23, 2005 7:42 pm

Undercover,

Can you suggest a brand of apple juice? Are some better than others?

Have you ever tried juicing your own apples? I believe a little pear is a good iead.

Oliver

Redsicks · Post by **Redsicks** » Saturday Jul 23, 2005 8:00 pm

"buy 5 3l bottles of preservative free apple juice from the supermarket for about $12.00 all up, add some yeast nutrient, a good wine yeast & maybe some dex or honey"

This maybe a dumb question, but what is "yeast nutrient"?

Cheers - Redsicks

gregb · Post by **gregb** » Sunday Jul 24, 2005 7:07 am

Have you ever tried juicing your own apples?

Yep.

Took a box of granny smiths, washed them in warm water, cored them and put them through the juice extractor. Got about 2/3 of the fermenter, topped up with boilimg water, added a beer yeast and a kilo of sugar.

Brewed slowly for about 5 months then in the bottle fo another couple.

Quite dry, but on the whole very nice. Ran out of them years ago.

Also tried something similar with lemons, but was way too bitter.

Cheers,

Greg.

Tyberious Funk · Post by **Tyberious Funk** » Sunday Jul 24, 2005 9:09 am

Oliver wrote:Undercover,

Can you suggest a brand of apple juice? Are some better than others?

Have you ever tried juicing your own apples? I believe a little pear is a good iead.

Oliver

Indeed, quite a few apple cider recipes recommend a little pear. I'd swap one of the five bottles of apple juice undercover recommends for a bottle of pear juice. My own experiences using fresh apples was that you need quite a lot in order to get enough juice... it is almost not worth it. You might want to use pectinase if you use fresh apples (it helps break down the apple solids).

Personally, I am not entirely convinced on the champagne yeast. It is commonly recommended, but I am currently using it for an apple wine and it seems to ferment rather dry and tart. I have seen recipes that use a simple ale yeast as an alternative... you'll get a lower alcohol content though (this is not necessarily a bad thing).

I'd also consider using brown sugar and/or honey to supplement, instead of say, white sugar or dextrose. Given how sharp my apple wine currently is, maybe some lactose would also be a good idea.

The yeast nutrient is phosphate and is commonly used in meads (and some wines) because there isn't enough natural nutrient in the honey. It isn't necessary in beer because the malt has everything the yeast needs. I'm led to believe it shouldn't be necessary in an apple cider because the apple juice should be sufficient, but almost all of my home-made fruit wine recipes recommend it... I doubt it would hurt.

undercover1 · Post by **undercover1** » Monday Jul 25, 2005 1:47 pm

Ho ho! Well spotted Mr Funk, and Oliver. I was replying to a newbie, so did not push the envelope at all, but, yes indeed using pear juice makes a big difference...so much so that several of our batches have been cider perry, brewed with 50/50 apple & pear.
Have never seriously considered juicing apples, part laziness, part because good juice is easy to come by.
Champagne yeast is low flocculating/high alcohol. Never used anything else, although stocks are low and may replace with something different.
Brown sugar, honey, cinnamon, cloves, nutmeg...they can all go in. All juice ciders seem to be more forgiving in some ways than beers- you are not brewing to a style, and that big juice flavour & alcohol kick can hide a multitude of minor sins.

Don't get me started on home brewed alcoholic lemonade...

Tyberious Funk · Post by **Tyberious Funk** » Monday Jul 25, 2005 3:21 pm

undercover1 wrote:
Don't get me started on home brewed alcoholic lemonade...

Actually... I'd love to hear some recipes

I imagine it would be something like Two Dogs.

undercover1 · Post by **undercover1** » Tuesday Jul 26, 2005 9:39 am

Hmmm...hopefully it's not much like Two Dogs.

2.5 to 3 kg lemons, washed in steriliser & roughly chopped.
5 g pectinase
2kg white sugar, glucose or dextrose- need extra as lemons have little.
10g champagne or wine yeast
pinch yeast nutrient (optional)

Put chopped lemons- peel, stalks & all- in a large saucepan, adding pectinase and enough water to cover. Bring to the boil, mash a few times with a potato masher or similar, cover, and leave, preferably overnight.

The next day, start the yeast in 500ml of warm (18-20oC) water, with 100g of the sugar dissolved in it. Stir well, cover and leave for at least 30 minutes.

The heat and pectinase should have reduced the lemons to a kind of thick pulp. Bring back to the boil, then take off the heat and mash with potato masher until fairly smooth. Do not worry if there are a few large chunks in the mix.

Allow pulp to cool enough to handle, and then squeeze through a piece of boiled muslin. This will be easier if you lay the muslin in a colander placed on top of a bucket and gently pour the pulp in. When the bulk of the liquid drains, then gather the corners of the muslin in and squeeze.

You should now have at least a litre and a half of cloudy lemon juice or â€œmustâ€, and a big blob of dryish pulp. Add a good big handful- at least 50 grams- of the pulp to the bucket and stir.

Place the must in a fermenter with remaining sugar, and top up to 15 litres with warm water. Stir well to dissolve sugar before pitching yeast starter (and a pinch of yeast nutrient if you are feeling nervous). Seal and add airlock.

This takes at least 2 weeks to ferment out. If hydrometer readings over two or three consecutive days indicate fermentation has stopped but FG is still above 1000, add more yeast.

Prime and bottle as usual- 1 tsp sugar or carb drop per stubby- and leave for a few weeks.
It comes out fairly strong, and initially has a bit of a yeasty taste, but smooths out after a couple of weeks. Best served very cold, it should taste rich, brassy and very lemony, with a bit of sweetness but nothing like a commercial brew.
You can also use brown sugar or honey, and add grated fresh ginger if you want. As with the cider, you may need to venture into the wine making aisle of your HBS for some of the ingredients.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tuesday Jul 26, 2005 4:13 pm

Well my cider that I bulked primed with 185grams Dex came out pretty flat.

Any chance it may fizz up a bit more after some more time in the bottle?
I used PET's and it has been two weeks.

Grabbie · Post by **Grabbie** » Tuesday Jul 26, 2005 4:15 pm

Forgot to log in sorry.
I have stuck a couple in a warmer place and a couple I have added some carbonation drops to.
So will see if any make a difference.
It tastes good though.

Tyberious Funk · Post by **Tyberious Funk** » Tuesday Jul 26, 2005 4:45 pm

undercover1 wrote:Hmmm...hopefully it's not much like Two Dogs.

Heh! I actually don't mind Two Dogs. Or at least, I didn't mind it many years ago when I was a uni student. Of course, my taste buds have matured significantly since then

2.5 to 3 kg lemons, washed in steriliser & roughly chopped.
5 g pectinase
2kg white sugar, glucose or dextrose- need extra as lemons have little.
10g champagne or wine yeast
pinch yeast nutrient (optional)

Seems pretty simple. And there is a lemon tree on my front verge

I'm more than comfortable with playing with wine ingredients (I have a lunch box filled with various packets of "stuff"). Two questions though...

1. I notice you don't use campden tablets... any thoughts?
2. What do you think about using some DME in place of sugar? I wonder if it might reduce the tartness that is typical in home made lemonade.

undercover1 · Post by **undercover1** » Wednesday Jul 27, 2005 2:13 pm

1. I notice you don't use campden tablets... any thoughts?
2. What do you think about using some DME in place of sugar? I wonder if it might reduce the tartness that is typical in home made lemonade.

There are some knocking around- I have a similar lunchbox to the one you mention- but I have never used them.
You could use DME, but the tartness is what it's all about.