Bulk Lagering in Secondary

[Kevnlis]

OK, my question is simple. Unfortunately the answer is not easy to find

I have nearly completed secondary (13 days primary and 2 days secondary so far with S23 at about 14C) on my lager and want to leave it in the secondary fermentor and cold condition it at about 2C for a few weeks. Easy done I know.

But...will the bottles still carb up after it has been at 2C in the secondary fermentor for 3 weeks? Seems to me all the yeast would be dead and gone by then?

I know it is probably a stupid question and I am sorry for wasting everyones time but I just can not find the answer anywhere!

[KEG]

they'll carb up fine. good luck getting rid of all the yeast

i'm currently lagering in a secondary at about 3c in my parent's fridge in their garage - no fridgemate or anything, so relying on the fridge's thermostat, which is fine.

[Kevnlis]

Cheers KEG! Never lagered/racked before so this bit is all new to me. Hope it works out

[James L]

I had the same thought when i first did my lagers....

It did take longer than what i expected to carb up (3 or so weeks) and the first couple i tried had a little less fizz than i would've liked, but now its been 2 months, and its bloody beautiful.. (tasted just like MB bohemian pils)

[Kevnlis]

Thanks James, after the lagering I plan to bottle and carb at 18C or so. Hope it goes faster than 3 weeks cuz I need them in less than a month from today

Could I put it in PET bottles and use the sodastream

[KEG]

certainly could.

[The Carbonator]

Really?

Thats awesome

[morgs]

Thanks James, after the lagering I plan to bottle and carb at 18C or so. Hope it goes faster than 3 weeks cuz I need them in less than a month from today

Could I put it in PET bottles and use the sodastream

You could try but im not sure if it will work. Read about this somewhere a while ago and it was unsuccessful. ie messy. However dont let that deter you ! Let us know if it works.

[Kevnlis]

Thing is, I want to lager this beer. I also need it ready for the 24th of (4 weeks from tomorrow) August. I will start lagering it tomorrow @ 2C. The minimum 3 weeks lagering doesn't give me enough time to properly carb it if I bottle it? What if I raise the temp on the bottle to say 20C or so will that help them carb up within the week?

[James L]

I think you might be pushing it.... I think it'll take a while to get the yeast numbers up as their growth is exponential. 1,2,4,8,16 etc... so slow to build up... then wooosh.... 512, 1024, 2048, 4096....

I open one after a week... nothing... two weeks.... little bubbles on the side of the glass, three weeks, little bit of a noise when opening and large bubbles, not much head.. 4 weeks... goodish...

I'm not sure what the go is for carbing temps. I always thought you carbed the bottle up at roughly the same temp it fermented at? so 12ish for lager yeast and 18ish for the ales...

I'm most probably wrong...

[The Carbonator]

Sorry Kevnlis, but I dont think you can have it both ways.

I would bottle them ASAP.
Those babies need about 4 weeks in bottles before you want to share them with anyone else.
The lagereing does help, but they will still be great beers, and your mates probably wont be able to tell if you lagered or not.

But they will definately notice if they are flat


I am in the same boat - got my bucks party in about 3 weeks, and just bottles a pilsner I had lagereing for 3 weeks.
...fingers crossed.

[Kevnlis]

I was actually planning on bottling it tomorrow morning anyway. I am sure it will be a great beer I just wanted it to be extra great ya know?

I am sure no one else will notice but it is for my own enjoyment really!

Thanks all.

[drsmurto]

If you bottle them and let them carb up for a few weeks and then put them in the fridge for 2 weeks you are pseduo-lagering(TM) them, just not in bulk.

[gremlin]

You're just refrigerating beer...

[drsmurto]

And lagering isnt?

[The Carbonator]

The yeast do a lot of the cleaning up, and then drop out of suspension, and thats why it is better to lager in bulk.

After bottling, you are just refrigerating beer.

[drsmurto]

Not wanting to split hairs but not all the yeast drops out of suspension otherwise you wouldnt be able to carb the beer.

Therefore, the yeast present after bottling will still be able to 'clean up'. Especially if you let it carb up at rt for a few weeks.

QED

I dont disagree that lagering in bulk is better. thats why i referred to it as pseudo-lagering(TM).

Kevnlis doesnt have time for bulk lagering so i was giving him an alternative.

Lets not knit pick over terminology.

[Kevnlis]

It's OK drsmarto. I am only going to leave enough bottles out of the fridge to get me through the party. The rest will go to the back and be left for a few months (it will be one of the contenders for my special Christmas brew) unless of course it tastes like piss

[The Carbonator]

Drsmurto, Im going to split this hair in two

You are talking about Cold Conditioning.

It is not lagering.

Lagering works a treat, wheras CCing is another word for aging your beers in the fridge.

[rwh]

Yeah, they have similar effects, but the bulk option will be different than the bottling option because

a) there is more yeast present in the fermenter
b) the partial pressure of CO2 in the fermenter is less than that in the bottle. Pressure makes yeast behave differently.
c) other reasons I've forgotten or don't know about

So yeah... the effect can be similar, in that both will allow chill haze proteins and tannins to precipitate out, but they will not be the same because of different behaviour of the yeast.