Toucan stout / Reactivated Coopers yeast

[trabfountain]

I've just put down a Toucan Stout using
1 can Coopers Stout
1 can Coopers Dark Ale
1 kg Dex
Reactivated Coopers Ale yeast ( from 6x Stubbies of Pale Ale )

I have made this stout before using the two kit yeasts and the result was really good but I have read so much about the better taste achieved by using the reactivated yeast so I thought I'd give it a go.

I reactivated the yeast by placing the six stubbies in the fridge for 5 days, pouring off the beer and adding the yeast residue to a cooled solution of 500ml boiling water and 5 tablespoons of sugar. This was placed in my temp controlled fridge at 25 degrees for 3 days and shaken morning and evening. At the end of the third day when shaken the gladwrap on top of the jar created a large bubble and the solution formed a very foamy head so I assumed it was ready to pitch.

I pitched the yeast into the wort at 23 degrees and placed the FV in the temp controlled fridge set to 18 degrees.

It is now a day later and there is no sign of any fermentation. I know the dry yeasts take a couple of days to start but I'm not sure if the same applies to reactivated yeast. How long should I wait and if it doesn't start can I add the kit yeast to the brew?

[gregb]

Have you taken a hydrometer reading? If it has not started to drop then yeast hasn't fired up.

[big dave]

I made a coopers yeast starter a couple of years ago, doing much as you did, with sugar. Mine worked ok, but a few chaps pointed out to me that there is nothing much in sugar to get a healthy yeast population going, and that I ought to have used Malt instead. Given I am doing AG now, I use the last drainings of wort to make starters. I wouldn't leave it too much longer before throwing another yeast into your mix. Whatever yeast or bacteria are in there will be madly trying to colonise, so you want a proper beer yeast to be the king.

[emnpaul]

The lag time you are experiencing is a result of under pitching. You are definitely on the right track but with reactivating the yeast but the problem is that you are putting a relatively small amount of yeast into a fairly high gravity wort. I wouldn't panic, as you've no doubt got viable yeast in there, it'll just take longer to start. Don't take the lid off to check as you risk infection by doing so.

Just for future reference bear in mind that higher gravity worts will require more yeast and a making a bigger yeast starter is a cost effective way to achieve this.

Have a look at this pitching rate calculator, but remember when converting your volume that US and Imperial gallons are different: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=mr+m ... e&ie=UTF-8

And making starters: http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewto ... f=2&t=8705

[trabfountain]

Thanks for your response guys. As it turns out I was unduly worried as it was my first time reactivating Coopers yeast because the brew is now bubbling away beautifully and forming a great big krausen. emnpaul you refer to under pitching does this mean there is not enough yeast in there to finish the job and I will end up with a brew with a much lower ABV % or does it just take longer to start? My next step is to try and farm the yeast of the current brew to use next time. I have read the article on making starters but have a question about the yeast farming piece. The suggestion is to pitch half the slurry but there is no sugar/malt in there. Also how do I store the other half for next time? Apologies for the dumb questions but I'm quite new to this and would like to do it right.

[emnpaul]

emnpaul you refer to under pitching does this mean there is not enough yeast in there to finish the job and I will end up with a brew with a much lower ABV % or does it just take longer to start?

The Cooper's yeast is pretty vigorous and forgiving so I doubt you'll have to worry about under attenuation (not finishing). It might be a problem with some other strains of yeast but I'm not sure which ones. Just the lag time, while the yeast is breeding prior to fermentation beginning can be an issue as it may allow other less desirable critters to gain a foothold, as Big Dave has said.

The suggestion is to pitch half the slurry but there is no sugar/malt in there.

The malt is already in the wort you're pitching it into. Unlike when culturing from a bottle you already have a large population of healthy yeast so you don't need to add any malt/sugar to get it going. Just chuck it straight in.

how do I store the other half for next time?

In a scrupulously clean, sanitised, sealed container in your fridge. It's important that it's sealed as some nasty little bugs can float around in your fridge.

Apologies for the dumb questions but I'm quite new to this and would like to do it right

No worries TF.

[trabfountain]

Thank you for your advice it's much appreciated.

[trabfountain]

It's been ten days now and the Toucan stout using the Coopers reactivated yeast has finished fermenting. However the final SG was only 1.021 compared to the brews using the two kit yeasts where it finished at 1.012. OG in all brews were 1.062 and all contained the same ingredients. I reactivated the yeast using 6 stubbies. Should I have used more ? I'm curious as to why this brew resulted in a lower FG.

[Oliver]

When you say it's finished fermenting, have you taken SG readings over two or three days that have been the same?

Don't take a lack of activity in the air lock as a sign that fermentation has ceased.

1.021 does seem to indicate that it hasn't finished fermenting, if the OG was 1.062.

Oliver

[trabfountain]

I took a reading Friday and another today and they were both the same. I'm fermenting at 18 degrees so perhaps I should leave it another week and see if it drops further.

[Oliver]

There are a few suggestions in the thread below about rousing yeast.

http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewto ... =2&t=11036

Cheers,

Oliver

[trabfountain]

Thanks for your help Oliver. I have raised the temp to 20 Deg and and would like to give it a gentle stir but am concerned about taking the lid off the FV in case any nasties get in.

Cheers

[Oliver]

You should be right if you use a sanitised spoon. The lid will only be off for 10 seconds or so.

Oliver

[trabfountain]

I have given it a stir and it started bubbling almost straight away so hopefully the FG will end up somewhat lower than 1.021. Thanks again.

Cheers

[melykabeer]

Hi trabfountain this thread reminded me to make another 2 can stout. I do mine similar to the way you did yours but instead of that kilo of dex i use 500g of ldme Ill post my final gravity when its done for some sort of comparison mine should be a little higher using the malt but not by much. I put it down on Saturday and I usually give this one 3 weeks before bottling. Please post what you think of using the re cultured yeast I was planning on doing it also but on an ale.

[trabfountain]

Hi melykabeer my stout has finally finished fermenting and ended up with a FG of 1.012 which is the same as the Toucan stout I have previously made using the two kit yeasts. The SG sample tasted pretty good too. I'll now try to harvest the yeast to use in my next Toucan brew. It's probably too early to tell if the re cultured yeast vastly improves the taste but I'll certainly do a comparison in a month or so. I'm curious to hear how your FG ends up using the ldme instead of the dex.

Cheers

[melykabeer]

Hey Trab
I haven't bottled it yet, its been sitting on my kitchen table for a few days now but i just took an sg reading and got 1013. Tasted pretty good too! Fermented it at 18 (probe in the beer) using both coopers yeast.
I usually put mine into glass bottles and give it a few months but i haven't been brewing all that much so ill probably get stuck into them sooner.