Big whoops with Stout!!!

astrogeek · Post by **astrogeek** » Saturday Mar 24, 2007 12:12 pm

Well I was putting down a stout today with the following recipe:

Coopers Stout Can 1.7kg
Stout Mix (Dextrose, Grains, Hops, Maybe others) 1kg
500g Dark Liquid malt extract

I simmered the stout mix and DLME in about 3lt of water on the stove for about 20mins then strained into the fermenter. Then I put the stout can in, filled up to 23lts and pitched the yeast (At a temp higher than I liked, 27 degrees). I then took an OG reading, 1037 WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was at this point that I realised that I had forgotten to stir in and dissolve the stout cans contents, I had just poured it in and filled up to 23lts. In an attempt to rectify the situation, and salvage $20 worth of ingredients, I gave the wort an almighty stir, trying to get as close to the bottom as possible. I know it is not good to stir after you have pitched the yeast bit what could I do. I managed to get the OG reading up to 1040, which is still quite low as I expected about 1050. Is there anything else I can do to fix this or should I just wait and see how it turns out?

shamus2 · Post by **shamus2** » Saturday Mar 24, 2007 12:16 pm

there;s nothing wrong with stirring after you;ve pitched the yeast... is there?

KEG · Post by **KEG** » Saturday Mar 24, 2007 12:47 pm

it'll be right i reckon. you wouldn't have managed to fully dissolve it i'd think, there'd be syrup on the bottom... but the yeast should get through it hopefully. you won't be able to calculate alc vol though.

astrogeek · Post by **astrogeek** » Saturday Mar 24, 2007 2:13 pm

KEG wrote:it'll be right i reckon. you wouldn't have managed to fully dissolve it i'd think, there'd be syrup on the bottom... but the yeast should get through it hopefully. you won't be able to calculate alc vol though.

I don't really care about knowing the exact alc vol anyway. My main concern is whether the flavours from the undissolved syrup will be able to get into the brew. I don't want to end up with an under-flavoured beer, after all thats why I started homebrew

.

Trough Lolly · Post by **Trough Lolly** » Saturday Mar 24, 2007 5:39 pm

Do you have a long handled / clean stirrer?
Gently scrape the bottom of the fermenter and pull the spoon out - if you see kit concentrate stuck to the spoon, you didn't stir enough and you need to keep stirring.
If you've pitched the yeast and it's past the adaptive phase, ie, it's fermenting then stir gently and avoid adding O2 to the brew as it's not needed when the yeast is actively fermenting.
If however you only just pitched the yeast and it's not yet attenuating the sugars you can give it a good stir since the yeast will be multiplying and will appreciate a bit of O2 in the wort to help multiply.
You won't hurt beer by rousing it, unless you go berserk and splash the bejaysus out of it when it doesn't need the air. Stirring up the wort will also reduce the lag time and help the yeast multiply - just like it does in starters on my magnetic stirrer...

Cheers,
TL

rwh · Post by **rwh** » Monday Mar 26, 2007 10:20 am

It'll be fine. Anyone who's done any chemistry would know that the syrup will dissolve itself over time without the aid of any stirring. Stirring won't hurt it at the start though, even if you have pitched the yeast. Once fermentation has kicked off, just leave it alone.

Relax and have a homebrew! (RAHAH?)

astrogeek · Post by **astrogeek** » Monday Mar 26, 2007 5:48 pm

rwh wrote:It'll be fine. Anyone who's done any chemistry would know that the syrup will dissolve itself over time without the aid of any stirring. Stirring won't hurt it at the start though, even if you have pitched the yeast. Once fermentation has kicked off, just leave it alone.

Good to hear that. Maybe I will leave it for longer than usual to make sure everything gets fully dissolved.

Relax and have a homebrew! (RAHAH?)

Thats exactly what I am doing now

NickMoore · Post by **NickMoore** » Tuesday Mar 27, 2007 8:06 pm

astro, you don't want to stir after the sugar has been converted to alcohol for fear of oxidisation which can lead to off flavours and keeping issues (apparantly, so I've read).

stirring when you did is harmless and, in fact, if vigorous enough, will add oxygen to the wort which helps the yeast.

in fact, I was reading something recently that recommended agitating the wort 24 hours (or was it 48 hours?) after adding the yeast because this was when they needed the oxygen most.

morgs · Post by **morgs** » Tuesday Mar 27, 2007 8:47 pm

I'd be more worried about simmering the grain, and adding it to the fermentor

astrogeek · Post by **astrogeek** » Wednesday Mar 28, 2007 7:34 am

morgs wrote:I'd be more worried about simmering the grain, and adding it to the fermentor

Why? When I say simmering it was actually about 80 degrees. I know that you shouldn't boil grains because it releases the harsh tannins. Is this what you meant? If you mean adding the actual grains to the wort, that is not the case as I strain the grains off as I pour the liquid into the fermenter.

BTW, I think I might start stirring my yeast in all the time now, because the lag time with this brew was only 3 hours. I hadn't rehydrated the yeast or anything, I just chucked it in.

Trough Lolly · Post by **Trough Lolly** » Monday Apr 02, 2007 11:16 pm

NickMoore wrote:astro, you don't want to stir after the sugar has been converted to alcohol for fear of oxidisation which can lead to off flavours and keeping issues (apparantly, so I've read).

stirring when you did is harmless and, in fact, if vigorous enough, will add oxygen to the wort which helps the yeast.

in fact, I was reading something recently that recommended agitating the wort 24 hours (or was it 48 hours?) after adding the yeast because this was when they needed the oxygen most.

Yep, stirring after the sugar has been attenuated by the yeast is a good way of oxidising the beer - mind you, I have managed to restart a sluggish beer by rousing gently to re-suspend some highly flocculant yeast.
Most yeast strains go through their adaptive phase within the first 16 hours of pitching. The yeast is aerobic in this phase, busily using the oxygen and nutrients such as Free Amino Acids and proteins present in the wort to multiplying in colony size before switching into the attenuative phase and actually converting the sugar to alcohol and CO2. As the oxygen level in the wort reduces the yeast cells respond by establishing different metabolic pathways which effectively means the start of the attenuative phase and the cells are actually fermenting anaerobically (without air) which means that the yeast won't benefit from additional oxygen being introduced into the environment. So, unless there's a unique strain of yeast or special reason to agitate the wort (eg, it's flocced out and need re-suspending) I would not be agitating yeast beyond the first 16 hours unless it was absolutely necessary.
Cheers,
TL

astrogeek · Post by **astrogeek** » Tuesday Apr 10, 2007 6:37 pm

Well I bottled it yesterday and it seemed to taste alright so fingers crossed. I will post an update in a couple of weeks when I open the first bottle.

SpillsMostOfIt · Wednesday Apr 11, 2007 8:35 am

Longer is better when it comes to stout. I tasted my first Australia Day Stout just a few days ago and figure it still needs a couple of months. It's worth the wait.

Having said that, life is *still* too short for lagers.

astrogeek · Post by **astrogeek** » Wednesday Apr 11, 2007 8:50 am

SpillsMostOfIt wrote:Longer is better when it comes to stout. I tasted my first Australia Day Stout just a few days ago and figure it still needs a couple of months. It's worth the wait.

Having said that, life is *still* too short for lagers.

Yeah I know that stouts need longer to mature but I still usually open one after 2-3weeks just to check the carbonation and that there are no infections. Then I leave the rest for 2-3months (Well, I try my hardest to

)

drtom · Post by **drtom** » Wednesday Apr 11, 2007 8:52 am

I must say I agree. I've done one lager. It took about 9 months to come good. It was pretty good, but the wait was not worth it. That said, I've done a couple of MSB Two Row kits which claim a lager yeast, but the temperature specs on the kit sound like ale temperatures to me. MSB Two Row + Hallertau & Saaz = friends tell me to give up my day job.

T.

SpillsMostOfIt · Wednesday Apr 11, 2007 10:08 am

drtom wrote:I must say I agree. I've done one lager. It took about 9 months to come good. It was pretty good, but the wait was not worth it. That said, I've done a couple of MSB Two Row kits which claim a lager yeast, but the temperature specs on the kit sound like ale temperatures to me. MSB Two Row + Hallertau & Saaz = friends tell me to give up my day job.

T.

Your friends are easily pleased. Imagine what they might say if you gave them a real beer instead! (I am no fan of the MSB stuff.)

astrogeek · Post by **astrogeek** » Tuesday Apr 24, 2007 6:06 pm

Well I cracked the first bottle last night, after only 2 weeks, and it tasted fairly good. It definatly needs a few months to reach its potential but I think it will turn out ok. I will report again next time I open a bottle.