Adding extra bittering hops to can kits

[WardM]

My understanding is that the manufacturers of typical "can and a kilo" kits have set the hop bitterness to be about right in 23 litres if only neutral sugars - cane or dextrose - are added to the base kit. Or, in the case of Cooper's higher series, the hop bitterness is meant to be right if the advice on extra sugars in the kit directions is followed.

If we are using malt extract instead of sugar/dextrose, is it the proportion of unfermentables in the added malt that needs to be balanced by extra bittering hops, or the extra malty taste? Or both? And how do we work out how much extra bittering hops need to be boiled up? Does added maltodextrin also need to be balanced (for its unfermenttable portion)?

[Bum]

My understanding is that the answer to most of those questions is "yes" but there are too many variables for there to be one "best" way to balance up your brews. Beersmith (http://www.beersmith.com) is supposed to be a great program that'll point you in the right direction in calculating your extra bittering but I think you'll have to decide on where the balance lies yourself and then work backwards. I've never used it but there are plenty of posts about it on the rest of the board for more info.

[billybushcook]

You beat me to the question WardM,
Iv'e been wanting to add bittering hops to the brews that I have steeped grain in, to balance them up.....So yes, I think the kits are only balanced to the amount of fermentables that the kit calls for, but I also think, it is up to individual tastes!

My question is.....is it better to just boil the Hops in a small amount of water then add this to the fermenter???

Figured I would give it a try, instead of boiling the can kit for an hour & loosing all its original Hops, then I wouldn't know where the benchmark is??

Cheers, Mick.

[Bum]

It's better to bung in some extract with the hop boil than doing it with straight water (about 100g/1l, I think). The volume of liquid required seems to vary depending on who you ask. For kit purposes people seem to recommend anything from 4 to 10l. I just did a 7l boil and it seemed to work pretty well for me.

[lang]

This will probably disgust the purists, I have two types of Hallertau (Aroma and NZ),Nelson Sauvin ,B Saaz and Northern Brewer in pellet form (just like RatSak ) and throw in 'enough' as is, just before I tighten the lid and let her go..
With various yeasts and hops, and malts, have had great brews. Iv'e found (apart from strict attention to sanitation) that a 'throw it in and see what happens' is rewarding, sure some too hoppy, some a little sweet,would it not be a sad thing if you didn't look forward to that first taste when she's ready? Sort of like brewers Harem...unveiled.

[wrighty]

Agreed your own experience for adding hops to kits is fine but i aways take notes and measure your amounts
When you make a good brew its easy to replicate.

[Wassa]

Sorry guys, but I am well and truly on the way to being overindulged, but in answer to your questions, from my limited experience:

1. If you use sugar, you will inevitably get the "homebrew" cidery taste, unless you drop the sugar to between 600gm to 700gm and then get a lighte alcohilic brew ranging from 3.8 to 4.2% based on quantity and what you start with.

2. If you use malt, or a malt mixture you need to hop either during the mix process (ie. a boil or short boil etc).

3. If you want extra flavour, aroma or both you need to do 2 above or add at flame out and dry hop.

4. You can do 2, 3 and 4 and get a much superior brew and then mix qunatity of H2o and then do 2, 3 & 4 and then get an even better brew.

It is alll about experimentation and finding out what you like!!!

Wassa

[Thyraeus]

You beat me to the question WardM,
Iv'e been wanting to add bittering hops to the brews that I have steeped grain in, to balance them up.....So yes, I think the kits are only balanced to the amount of fermentables that the kit calls for, but I also think, it is up to individual tastes!

My question is.....is it better to just boil the Hops in a small amount of water then add this to the fermenter???

Figured I would give it a try, instead of boiling the can kit for an hour & loosing all its original Hops, then I wouldn't know where the benchmark is??

Cheers, Mick.

I remember from Laurie Strachan's book that you shouldn't boil the kit can - as it is often made with iso hops which can be destabilised by boiling? Laurie say boil H2o and all the extras boil...then add to fermenter with the can.

[Trough Lolly]

You beat me to the question WardM,
Iv'e been wanting to add bittering hops to the brews that I have steeped grain in, to balance them up.....So yes, I think the kits are only balanced to the amount of fermentables that the kit calls for, but I also think, it is up to individual tastes!

My question is.....is it better to just boil the Hops in a small amount of water then add this to the fermenter???

Figured I would give it a try, instead of boiling the can kit for an hour & loosing all its original Hops, then I wouldn't know where the benchmark is??

Cheers, Mick.

G'day all,
Yes, if you want to add bitterness to the brew, you need to boil the hops and I would recommend against boiling hops in plain water. Mick, you mentioned steeped grains - so why not add some water to the pot that holds the sweet liquor that you extracted from the steeped grains and do a 6L boil with some bittering hops? As I mentioned in my partial mash sticky... you can easily do a small boil with some malt extract or steeped grain liquor, to help key in the bittering components of the hops into the destination wort. As you noted, boiling the kit will not add bitterness, but it will knock out some if not most of the volatile aroma compounds.

Cheers,
TL

[billybushcook]

G'day all,
Yes, if you want to add bitterness to the brew, you need to boil the hops and I would recommend against boiling hops in plain water. Mick, you mentioned steeped grains - so why not add some water to the pot that holds the sweet liquor that you extracted from the steeped grains and do a 6L boil with some bittering hops? As I mentioned in my partial mash sticky... you can easily do a small boil with some malt extract or steeped grain liquor, to help key in the bittering components of the hops into the destination wort. As you noted, boiling the kit will not add bitterness, but it will knock out some if not most of the volatile aroma compounds.

Cheers,
TL

Thx TL, but I failed to add that I was thinking about adding a small amount of extra bittering to simple K&K beers as well.

So, best to use a small amount of wort eh? (kit extract)

Mick.

[Trough Lolly]

Yep, do a small vol boil with the steeped liquor extract and additional hops. Toss the kit into the fermenter when you're done and you shouldn't lose any hop aroma from the kit if you keep things cool in the fermenter.

Cheers,
TL