The tale of two Ales.....

[velophile]

Almost a IRS Stout

I recently made a Stout loosely based on this recipe - http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/BeerOTM ... ersIRS.htm

I used,
1 Coopers Stout kit
1 Tooheys Lager kit (got a few of these real cheap)
~500g JW dark Crystal malt
~200g JW Wheat malt
Stout kit yeast.
Volume 21 litres.

It was my first attempt at using grains & would say it went OK. I had to use more water though (aprox 1.5l); the 500ml in the recipe hardy wet the grain. I also need a better filter than a cotton bandana & colander. Very slowly drained off the grain & added a bit more water when possible. Boiled the run off & let it cool while I added the kits to the fermenter.
I cooled & diluted both the kit & grain juice with pre-chilled water from the fridge. Pitched rehydrated kit yeast. Blew bubbles as Coopers yeast seem to do.

Bottled & stored out of sight for winter


Amber Ale

After making the above stout I had the grains still sitting in the colander on top of the mash pot. Some more liquid had drained out & collected in the pot. I tested this in the hydrometer & found it still had a fairly high gravity, about 1.040 for the 500ml or so that had slowly drained while I finished the stout. Too good to waste I thought. I put a bit more warm water over the grain & collected 2.5 litres of dark liquid. This went into the fridge to wait for the stout to finish & free up the fermenter.

1 Tooheys Draught kit (Just out of date, $3.15 each)
500g LDME
500g Dextrose
2.5 litres second runnings from stout.
10g Willamette boiled 5 mins.
10g Willamette at flame out.

Yeast starter from Coopers Pale Ale.

Tasted both starter & runnings to ensure no gremlins had grown in them. Boiled runnings & LDME added hops for 5 min boil, flameout & add aroma hops. While wort cooled, added kit & dextrose to fermenter, add cooled wort. Topped up with chilled water to 22 litres.
Pitched yeast starter at 21c. OG 1.045
Racked 6 days later, SG 1.006.

To be bottled this week-end.

[Paleman]

Sounds like a nice Stout velophile. Let us know the tasting results. Im after a good one for this winter. Probably based on a Coopers Stout can. I might mix a Grumpys Masterbrew with it.

Thanks for the recipes !!

[gregb]

I picked up a suggestion for an RIS from the Coopers Club forum. After reading the notes on it I put down:

1 x Coopers Stout
1 x Coopers Classic Old Dark Ale
1 x Coopers Lager
500g Light Dry Malt
350g Dextrose
4 x Coopers tin yeasts
Water to 22L.

Note: It will krausen out the top and accross the floor, be prepared for a clean up.

On the tasting list for early April, will let you know.

Cheers,
Greg

[velophile]

I picked up a suggestion for an RIS from the Coopers Club forum. After reading the notes on it I put down:

1 x Coopers Stout
1 x Coopers Classic Old Dark Ale
1 x Coopers Lager
500g Light Dry Malt
350g Dextrose
4 x Coopers tin yeasts
Water to 22L.

Note: It will krausen out the top and accross the floor, be prepared for a clean up.

On the tasting list for early April, will let you know.

Cheers,
Greg

It sounds wild, nearly 6kg of fermentables in 22 litres.
My stout foamed just out the top of a 30 litre fermenter with only 2 cans.

[gregb]

I lost a couple of litres on the floor. Black, sticky goop on the bench top and floor.

If I do this again I might try Saflager S23 because it doesn't foam and froth like a lot of the Ale yeasts.

At bottling time the SG sample tasted tops.

Cheers,
Greg

[velophile]

Th Stout is just 2 months in the bottle & is rather good!
I sampled it at about 2 week intervals & the changes have been major. Early on there was a nasty type of bitterness from the Tooheys kit. This has faded & the taste now is closer to the sort of Stout I really like.

The Amber had heaps of diacetyl at first & has also mellowed to a nice tastey ale. The cystal malt is noticeable & maybe its a bit sweet for some but good flavour from the specialty grains. Best served just cold.

[Wassa]

I just hate to disagree with everyone, including my father in law, but there is no such thing as a good stout. They all taste like burnt charcoal.

Give me a good rich, malty dark ale (Tooheys) any day.

i just know this will start a sh..t fight but I have not tasted a Stout i like.

[gregb]

Wassa,

It's cool man. Taste is an individual thing and to each thier own. There are no right or wrong answers (within reason, of course )

Cheers,
Greg

[two headed brewer]

I'm normally not a stout drinker, but I did this recipe and it's going down a treat. Bit of an attempt at a Monteith's Smooth black style.
Coopers Stout can
1kg dark LM
150 choc grain
150 dark grain
15 g sticklebrac + 10g steep
1/2 hr steep for grain
1/2 hr simmer with DLM and 15g hop. Final simmer for 10 min with grain water, then added coopers can, turned off and cooled in the sink - added hop for this 10-15min period.
Filled to 22ltrs.
Not sure how it stacks against the Monteith's but is did come up with a good balance between malt and hop
Bally

[velophile]

I just hate to disagree with everyone, including my father in law, but there is no such thing as a good stout. They all taste like burnt charcoal.

Give me a good rich, malty dark ale (Tooheys) any day.

i just know this will start a sh..t fight but I have not tasted a Stout i like.

If you don't like stouts thats OK. All the more for me!

There are however stouts I don't like very much. I'm not fond of overly bitter, dry, Irish type stouts.

[ex0ja]

They all taste like burnt charcoal.

That's exactly what I like about stouts! What produces the burnt charcoal taste? Is it the dark malt?

[velophile]

They all taste like burnt charcoal.

That's exactly what I like about stouts! What produces the burnt charcoal taste? Is it the dark malt?

It's the roast barley &/or roast malt included in the grain bill.

Think about it, leave your toast in the toaster too long & it will taste like charcoal. Same with roasted malt, been in the kiln for longer.

[Oliver]

They all taste like burnt charcoal.

That's exactly what I like about stouts! What produces the burnt charcoal taste? Is it the dark malt?

The roasted grain or malt, or both, gives the colour and the taste. The more roasted they are, the more colour and flavour they add. So those big, charcoal-tasting stouts have a lot of very highly roasted, almost burnt grain in them.

Coincidentally, I'm drinking a stout right now. A No.37 Dragon Stout. After it being in the bottle for about 400 years, one can finally drink more than a glass of it before it being overpowering.

Nice.

Oliver

[ex0ja]

The roasted grain or malt, or both, gives the colour and the taste. The more roasted they are, the more colour and flavour they add. So those big, charcoal-tasting stouts have a lot of very highly roasted, almost burnt grain in them.

I've just realised I've been confusing myself between malts and specialty grain. So malt is the liquid or powder fermentable stuff that you can get in light, amber or dark varieties and specialty grain is stuff you steep and comes in crystal, chocolate, roasted and other varieties. Is that right?

Now, what's roasted malt? Is that the same as dark malt? If roasted malt (and grain) gives the charcoal flavour, what does dark malt do?

(Sorry for hijacking this thread)

[Oliver]

ex0ja,

I must admit this is a very confusing topic. Unfortunately, some terms are interchangeable.

Strictly speaking, malt is a grain (usually barley, but can be wheat or other grains) that has gone through the malting process. That is, it's been wet and allowed to germinate, then heated to stop germination. The amount of heat and the length the heat is applied results in different coloured grain, from very light to black.

Grain must be malted before it is "mashed", otherwise the enzyme to convert the starch in the grain to sugar during mashing is not present.

The malted grain is mashed in warm water for an hour or two, and the resulting sweet runoff is boiled up with hops, cooled and fermented.

However, many homebrewers (and even some smaller commercial brewers) prefer to buy malt extract (somtimes confusingly referred to simply as "malt", but context usually reveals what is meant) because the hard work of mashing the malted grain has already been done, and it's just a matter of opening the packet or tin of dry or liquid malt extract.

Specialty grains aren't necessarily malted grains, as they may be unmalted wheat or roasted barley, to name but two. These unmalted grains will not add any fermentables (ie sugar) to brews.

Hope this makes sense.

Cheers,

Oliver

[ex0ja]

Thanks Oliver, its all clear now.